[Joker7]

Hi, I'm new to the site and I have some questions.

I co-DM a group in Northwest Arkansas. We played 3.5 straight up for a couple weeks and now we are looking to make some changes to have it better fit our needs.

One of the issues I brought up was the lack of ambidexterity. Obviously, that was a point to balance out the ranger class. We might bring that back, as it does seem kinda wierd to take it out of the world altogether.

The other thing which is my question is using the rapier as a light off-hand weapon. The argument I used is that most light weapons weigh two pounds or under and rapiers meet that requirement. Obviously, the rapier is a longer weapon so it is considered a medium weapon instead of a light.

Because bastard swords can be used as a one-handed weapon when combined with the exotic weapon proficiency feat, I was wondering what anyone thought about using the rapier as a light off-hand weapon if the exotic weapon proficiency (rapier) feat was obtained. That way, if one sacrifices a feat, one can get a 1d8 weapon in the off-hand slot.

As a DM, that sounds reasonable. So what do the other DMs think about it?

I hope the same applies for elven thinblades.

Thank for reading and please post away.

[Cuilean]

I'd be all right with allowing a character use a rapier as a "light" weapon in their off-hand, provided they used a feat as you described. It's the same weight as a shortsword.

A normal rapier's length makes it difficult to use as an off-handed weapon unless you practice regularly with it. I fence on-and-off again, and it's very easy to accidentally trap one of your own blades with the other when fighting "case".

Oh, and a point of clarification- a rapier's only a 1d6 weapon, not a 1d8. If your characters are asking because they just want a higher-number weapon, make sure you verify that they're looking at the right number!

[WoeTheSinner]

I'm always tentative about flat out agreeing with things like this because I'm sure there are drawbacks and abuses that I don't see, but here is my spin on it.

1) I agree about ambidexterity. Just up the Min dex requirement to 19.

2) Use the monkeygrip feat as a source of inspiration for this Offhand Monkey Grip. Must have wpn focus in the non light weapon you want to wield as an offhand weapon to Get the Offhand Monkey Grip feat, the weapon can be no larger than medium (relative to your size), recieve a -1 to attk with that wpn while using it as an offhand weapon.

-Woe

[SchizofranicDM]

This sounds like a reasonable idea. I also agree with Cuilean in that the difficulty of dual wielding a rapier is in its length, which would explain why, although it is a light weapon, it is also of medium size. And rapiers are a d6 in damage. However, also consider that it has a threat rang of 18-20. given a keen rapier with a wielder that had improved crit(rapier), that range is increased to a 12-20. Albeit, making a weapon keen needs at least a +2 bonus, but considering that your hits are threats 45% of the time, that measly d6 can quickly be a 2d6.

[mipadi]

SchizofranicDM, on Sep 20 2004, 02:49 PM, said:

This sounds like a reasonable idea. I also agree with Cuilean in that the difficulty of dual wielding a rapier is in its length, which would explain why, although it is a light weapon, it is also of medium size. And rapiers are a d6 in damage. However, also consider that it has a threat rang of 18-20. given a keen rapier with a wielder that had improved crit(rapier), that range is increased to a 12-20. Albeit, making a weapon keen needs at least a +2 bonus, but considering that your hits are threats 45% of the time, that measly d6 can quickly be a 2d6.

I thought that keen and Improved Criticial no longer stacked in 3.5?

[WoeTheSinner]

jigga what? really? i still play 3.0 90% so i havent fully read 3.5...bah i keep putting off buying them there books

[Ssri-Tel-Quessir Hitokiri]

mipadi, on Sep 20 2004, 08:13 PM, said:

I thought that keen and Improved Criticial no longer stacked in 3.5?

You are correct when you say that Keen and Improved Crit no longer stack.

I would say it sounds ok to use the rapier as an off hand weapon. There are, of course, some weapons that I will not allow to be used in two weapon fighting, unless of course you are of the proper size. Bastard Sword is one of them.

If the player wants to have a weapon that does a lot of damage, why not create a feat called Twin Weapon Style and allow the character to use two of the same weapon in a dual wield?

[Shadowborn]

That's one of the 3.5 rules I don't implement. The crit range increase comes from two different sources. One is a learned ability, the other is magic. To me, it's like saying that the Iron Will/Lightning Reflexes/Great Fortitude feats won't stack with a Cloak of Resistance.

I realize the intent of the rule is to disallow crit monsters, but to me having a rapier or scimitar weilder that can deal 2d6 + whatever 45% of the time really doesn't strike me as a problem.

[Broderik]

Shadowborn, on Sep 20 2004, 11:42 PM, said:

I realize the intent of the rule is to disallow crit monsters, but to me having a rapier or scimitar weilder that can deal 2d6 + whatever 45% of the time really doesn't strike me as a problem.

3 levels of Swashbuckler (The new fighter book, cant recall the name atm) gives you the ability to add your Int to damage (this ability is only for weapons that can be used with weapon finesse and on living creatures).

So if you have two decent scores in both Int and Str, plus the 12-20 crit, you have great potential to do good damage.

Combine those 3 levels of Swashbuckler with a couple of rogue.

Now you have sneak attack to add to your damage. Plus, if you take feats for two weapon fighting, you have a killing machine.

Example:
Kukris 1d4 18-20 x2 crit Str 16 (+3) Int 20(+5) Total: 1d4+8 18-20
Add keen and a +2 damage enhancement
1d4+10 15-20

The minimium damage is 11 with out a crit, and thats pretty [WOMBAT] good. With a crit, min is 22 damage.

Weilding two of these suckers you can do some major damage; When you flank and use sneak attack, that adds some more dmg too.

Here's another kicker, do this using the Elven Thin Blades(1d8 18-20 x2 in that fighter book too).

I was a Drow when i was using the kukri. So you probably wouldn't have the nice 20 Int that i had, but you get the idea.

[Ssri-Tel-Quessir Hitokiri]

Wow... That sounds like a lot of fun...

[WoeTheSinner]

the hevy crit range doesnt hurt as mych as when you get a scyther rocking it, or worse yet a mercurial greatsword...x4 crits from 15-20 makes for some very short encounters...I had a dwarven fighter like tha once...killed one of my bosses on his first hit with 89 dmg...so then i made 3 trees come to life and attack them...hey you gotta keep it interesting

[Broderik]

Yeah, i had a template for a psion with grafted sytes on his arms. Did something like 200 dmg total with all the power-ups and stuff. Forget how to do it though.

[Shadowborn]

Eh, I don't use the swashbuckler...or any of the other new classes from Complete Warrior. I didn't see any need for them. The only one that was of any real interest was the hexblade.

As for the damage you listed, it still doesn't come close to a greatsword weilding, high level fighter with Power Attack. One and a half Str bonus and double the power attack modifier leads to some hefty carnage.

[Broderik]

Swash Buckler is pretty useless after the thrid level, grace is nice, but thats about it.

Power attack is a very good feat, but only when used in the right situation.

Greatspear + Combat Reflexes + Power Attack + Cleave = some whoop [CHAIR]. Great for attack of oppertunity.

[WoeTheSinner]

i used to have a barbarian with a chain with 16 dex and 18 str, combat reflexes cleave great cleave...on attacks of opportunity he was a death machine, but for a single attack i've never seen anyone do more dmg than a Half-Orc, (1) Barb/ (6) Cleric (Kord Str Domain)/ (4) Fighter with a greatsword, power attk and wpn specialization and bulls str and rage and str domain and various clerical spells...It was a great trick...but he could only do it once ...came in handy when he was about to be swallowed by a dragon though...would have been nice to see how he advanced...oh well no use in pining over games long gone