[Dthclaw]

Okay, so, I'm creating new classes (again). This one is proving a tough nut to nail down what precisely I want to do with it.

The Witch Knight is, at it's core, a caster class akin to the Warlock and Artificer. It's also a spellcaster, but it's ability to use magic spells is unlike other classes. It has an extremely wide range of abilities, but using any of its abilities depletes the power available for other abilities, making them versatile but fairly quickly depleted in a given encounter.

-And, yes, the Witch Knight is basically a per-encounter class-

Anyway, I'm putting it up here for review and comment, please let me know what you think.

[Holy Deg]

I'm going to prefece this by acknowledging that I have not play tested this.

This class looks intriguing, and would definitly be a challenge to play (a good thing in my opinion). Your descriptions give a huge amount of background for role play.

There are three things that caught my eye on my first read through:

1.

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a Witch Knight's spellcasting and Witch Fire abilities are hampered by armor.

You don't mention how these abilities are hampered by armor. I would imagine that it is similar to how a sorcerer is hampered by armor, but the PHB does still give a brief explanation as to how the sorcerer and wizard are hampered by armor. If the hamperment is the normal arcane spell failure for spells requiring a somatic component one brief line indicating such would be enough. Sorry to be so nitpicky.

2. It seems to me that your skill points per level are unbalanced with the number of class skills. This could be rectified by changing the number of skill points per level to 2 + int mod as the sorcerer and wizard, or by adding more skills to the class skill list (as other d6 classes). This is a minor point, that probably won't have any real effect on game play.

3. This is the one that I'm actually most hesitant to say anything about having not play tested it. As a DM, I would be really conserned about a player who had special abilities that regenerated at the rate that the Witch Knights abilities regenerate at. Now, I'm not advicating a regeneration at a given rate per day. I even don't have a problem with regenerating at a given rate per round. I just think that regenerating at a rate of the charisma mod has the potential to be to great a rate. So maybe something more along the lines of 1/2 charisma mod or 3/4 charisma mod rounding up. Like I said, this is a difficult one to determine without playtesting (and I'm sorry, I don't have time to playtest it).

Hopefully these were helpful comments.

Now for the things I liked:

1. New class ability at 5th and 7th levels. I hate that the 5th and 7th levels feel like empty levels for most classes. "Oh, I rolled +2 hp. yeah ". Or, as the DM, "This monster with class levels has 4.5 more HP on average than he did before, and now his CR went up by 1?" I don't think so, Tim.

2. The mixture of class abilities and spells seems really well balanced, making the class have a few really good abilities, without being fantastic at everything. The abilities are also spread out through levels really well.

3. When I first started reading your post I thought this might turn out to be a lot like the Duskblade from PHBII, with maybe a little bit thrown in from the spellthief from Complete Adventurer. I was very pleased that it didn't look like anything I had seen before.

[Dthclaw]

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I'm going to prefece this by acknowledging that I have not play tested this.

That's okay, I haven't either.

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You don't mention how these abilities are hampered by armor. I would imagine that it is similar to how a sorcerer is hampered by armor, but the PHB does still give a brief explanation as to how the sorcerer and wizard are hampered by armor. If the hamperment is the normal arcane spell failure for spells requiring a somatic component one brief line indicating such would be enough. Sorry to be so nitpicky.

It is just standard arcane spell failure chance. Technically speaking all spell-likes are considered subject to ASF, but you're right, I should put a specific line in there. All the spell-like are subject to it, even the divine intuition ability.

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2. It seems to me that your skill points per level are unbalanced with the number of class skills. This could be rectified by changing the number of skill points per level to 2 + int mod as the sorcerer and wizard, or by adding more skills to the class skill list (as other d6 classes). This is a minor point, that probably won't have any real effect on game play.

Um, part of the problem here is that I hadn't finished their skill list

Another thing I should state is that I've actually modified all of the base classes from the PHB that do not rely on Int for class abilities to be 4+ skill points - Sorcerers, Fighters, and others. It's just part of my comprehensive overhaul of classes in general.

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This is the one that I'm actually most hesitant to say anything about having not play tested it. As a DM, I would be really conserned about a player who had special abilities that regenerated at the rate that the Witch Knights abilities regenerate at. Now, I'm not advicating a regeneration at a given rate per day. I even don't have a problem with regenerating at a given rate per round. I just think that regenerating at a rate of the charisma mod has the potential to be to great a rate. So maybe something more along the lines of 1/2 charisma mod or 3/4 charisma mod rounding up. Like I said, this is a difficult one to determine without playtesting (and I'm sorry, I don't have time to playtest it).

Hmm, okay. The regeneration rate honestly hadn't been one of my major concerns just because of the stupidly high Charisma you would need to get a massive regen rate, and even then the WK has to refrain from using abilities to take advantage of a giganto mod. Still, it'll be something to take special note of in play-testing.

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1. New class ability at 5th and 7th levels. I hate that the 5th and 7th levels feel like empty levels for most classes. "Oh, I rolled +2 hp. yeah sad.gif". Or, as the DM, "This monster with class levels has 4.5 more HP on average than he did before, and now his CR went up by 1?" I don't think so, Tim.

Yeah, I try to eliminate dead levels as best as I can. When I design classes I try to make them all interesting across the entire progression. I had difficulty coming up with an idea for WK 4 but +1 BAB and +1 on two saves should be sufficient for lower levels.

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The mixture of class abilities and spells seems really well balanced, making the class have a few really good abilities, without being fantastic at everything. The abilities are also spread out through levels really well.

Heh, okay. One of my players had one of the exact opposite things to say; we'll have to find out with some playtesting how broken he can make it.

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When I first started reading your post I thought this might turn out to be a lot like the Duskblade from PHBII, with maybe a little bit thrown in from the spellthief from Complete Adventurer. I was very pleased that it didn't look like anything I had seen before.

Thank you. I do my best to try to create interesting new mechanics, whether it's an "I wanna be a monster" class or something slightly more traditional. I basically look at the PHB classes as my baseline for determining how something will stack up (and the older Completes) in terms of balance precisely because newer base classes like the Duskblade generally suffer from some extreme power creep in comparison. I essentially tried to compare the WK to both the Warlock and the Sorcerer in terms of casting ability and the Eberron Artificer for combat buffs. And, as I'm sure you know, you have to come up with something fairly exotic to pull players away from the basic classes without giving them psychotic stuff like the Duskblade or Complete Mage *shudder*

[super sorcerer]

I think the Idea is very good .

A few little problems I had reading this character:
1) Does the divine intuition class ability allow the character to heal itself and the entire party up to maximum HP any time they can rest 4 minutes? I think it is a little too much.
2) Does it work OK with the spell "Tenser's transformation"? untill the duration of the spell ends the Witch knight would probably have enough Weirding energy to use it againw and it give the character a lot of temporary HP.
3) About long duration (at least 1 min/level) spells such as greater mage armor or polimorph, will it be OK to let the Witch Knight cast them on the entire party continualy? I mean that it sound a little too powerfull to me.
4) Is the regeneration rate slow enough to prevent too much summonig? I mean that one mordenkainen's sword after another in 4 rounds differencs sound like a lot (especialy if you are flying under supreme invisibility from above and simply watch the swords do the work).
5) How do you prevent nearly limitless teleportation and limitless improved invisibility from harming game ballance.

[Dthclaw]

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1) Does the divine intuition class ability allow the character to heal itself and the entire party up to maximum HP any time they can rest 4 minutes? I think it is a little too much.

That is a legitimate concern, and a thorny issue in general where spells are concerned. Technically, yes, as written a Witch Knight that grabs high-powered healing spells could act as an HP battery for the party. There is the caveat, though, that Witch Knights have precious few spells to learn, and if a WK decides to grab a spell like Heal when they have access to the Cleric spell list, I wouldn't have much concern with it - players are going to find ways to top themselves off in most situations within the framework given to them, as the overall effect isn't too different from having a similarly leveled dedicated divine caster in the party. Consider that a high-level cleric has more than a dozen spell slots they can blow per day on Heal and similar spells, and you get the same net effect when there's any downtime between fights.

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2) Does it work OK with the spell "Tenser's transformation"? untill the duration of the spell ends the Witch knight would probably have enough Weirding energy to use it againw and it give the character a lot of temporary HP.

Yes, it would work okay with Tenser's transformation. However, I think you're looking at a different version of the spell, the SRD says it only grants a +4 Enhancement on Str/Dex/Con. Because they gain an enhancement bonus to Con, they don't get temporary HP at all, they're just tougher. Considering that a WK probably doesn't have the same kind of HP as a Fighter or Paladin even after such a buff, I'd say that it's not a real big issue considering that they can't cast other spells in the meantime. In fact, it would probably be a decent buff for WKs to take, but not game breaking, I'd say.

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3) About long duration (at least 1 min/level) spells such as greater mage armor or polimorph, will it be OK to let the Witch Knight cast them on the entire party continualy? I mean that it sound a little too powerfull to me.

Personally? My players could cause at least as much buff mayhem with normal spellcasters without wasting the time on energy regeneration. The thing to keep in mind with the WK is how well they can handle encounter time - if the party's WK has been regularly dumping Weirding energy into party buffing, I'd say that it's fair for the party to be buffed but the WK is probably still going to be recharging, and a WK that starts a fight with low energy is in bad shape (little/no spells, fear, imbuing, mental defenses, witch fire... all the major abilities crippled).

With the playtesting that I've done with a few sample builds, WKs are really weak when their energy is severely depleted. If a player constantly spends energy on abilities by just casting them whenever they have enough energy to do so, they actually hurt their versatility quite a bit.

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4) Is the regeneration rate slow enough to prevent too much summonig? I mean that one mordenkainen's sword after another in 4 rounds differencs sound like a lot (especialy if you are flying under supreme invisibility from above and simply watch the swords do the work).

Well, you'd have to have a pretty long battle going on for a WK to pop a Supreme Invisibility along with a steady stream of summoned swords. Although large numbers of swords could cause problems, there's also the question of what the WK is doing in the meanwhile - they can't have a stream of swords going off if they use other WK abilities, since regeneration in a round is negated by using energy. Although 1 sword every 5 rounds could cause problems, it also means 4 rounds of dead time in between or using much weaker ability sets (weapons, for example) - and to enhance those weapons with Imbue, you make it harder to setup the energy abuse in the first place. Dedicated casters might not be able to do it all day long, but they don't have to wait to dump all their spells per day on an enemy.

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5) How do you prevent nearly limitless teleportation and limitless improved invisibility from harming game ballance.

The same way you do with other casters that have access to those abilities. Teleportation is at least as much a problem with normal casters (trust me, a cleric with the Travel domain and Spontaneous Domain Spell feat will cause these problems), and invisibility is much less of a problem than a stupidly high Hide check (see also see invisibility, true seeing, tremorsense, blindsense, blindsight...) A DM running a campaign where such magics are present has to accept their presence or come up with acceptable reasons for their absence - if they're present, there are already substantial tools and creatures available to counter their effects (although a character that has these abilities should definitely be able to shine with them sometimes - a teleporter should be able to have fun with their character's exploratory ability).

[Dthclaw]

I'm reposting the WK with a finished skill list, some fixed typos, and a little clarification on certain abilities.

Attached File(s)

•  Witch_Knight.doc (113.5K)
  Number of downloads: 7

[super sorcerer]

Now before I playtest all I need is a few clarifications:
1) Can a WN use metamagic feat with increased wierding energy cost?
2) How does his powers work with counterspells?
3) Is there any way to replace powers over levels (like sorcerers)?
4) How doe's it work with prestige classes with caster level adjusment?
5) Does the maximum wierding energy depend on caster level or class level?
6) If I hold a +3 greatsword and I want to imbue it to +7 greatsword will it cost me 16 wierding energy(for the extra +4) or 28 wierding energy (for the entire +7)?

I have an idea for some new feats for that class:
Extra wierd:
prerequisites: The ability to use wierding energy.
benefit: The character get a +2 bonus to his maximum wierding energy.
speacial: this feat may be takken several times and its effects are comulative.

Blood sacrifice:
prerequisites: The ability to use wierding energy.
benefit: the character may sacrifice any amount of HP as a standart action' then the character regenerate an extra amount of Wierding energy equal to the sacrificed HP.
speacial: you can't use this feat in the same turn you cast a spell.

*using this spell and immidiatly afterwards a healing spell may be usfull for quick replanish but it still take 2 valuable standart action and the cost of the healing spell is still reduced. *

Fear focus:
prerequisites: Witch knight
benefit: you gain +1 to the DC of all WK fear efects (not including fear spells).

Greater Fear focus:
prerequisites: Witch knight, Fear focus.
benefit: the bonus from the Fear focus feat increase to +2.

[Dthclaw]

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1) Can a WN use metamagic feat with increased wierding energy cost?

No. A Witch Knight's spells are spell-like abilities and not actual spells, so any metamagic to be applied to them would have to be Sudden Metamagic feats, the same kind that a Warlock has to rely upon.

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2) How does his powers work with counterspells?

Like any other spell-like ability, a Witch Knight's spells can be used to counter the spells they duplicate but nothing else (unless the spell in question works otherwise like dispel magic).

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3) Is there any way to replace powers over levels (like sorcerers)?

Currently no, but it wouldn't be too unreasonable to put in a mechanic for that.

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4) How doe's it work with prestige classes with caster level adjusment?

It would increase the caster level for the WK's abilities, but otherwise would have minimal impact. I might house-rule it that +spell-casting features might allow them to pick up new spell-likes, but they wouldn't gain extra energy (because that is a function of WK level).

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5) Does the maximum wierding energy depend on caster level or class level?

Energy depends specifically on Witch Knight (and ONLY Witch Knight) levels.

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6) If I hold a +3 greatsword and I want to imbue it to +7 greatsword will it cost me 16 wierding energy(for the extra +4) or 28 wierding energy (for the entire +7)?

That's a good point, I hadn't thought to clarify on that. You would wind up paying 28 energy for the full +7, and the enhancements would overwrite whatever is on the weapon already (which isn't necessarily a bad thing, it gives the WK great flexibility for unusual situations).

Also, liking the feat ideas, supersorcerer! They definitely play up on the somewhat spooky and unpredictable nature of the class.