[Fisban42]

Ok. I found a book "Race Creation Cookbook" published by W.O.t.C. and began rebuilding the races i had made and applying proper(as far as i can tell) level adjustments. This is the first race of 6 or 8 i want to create from the anime "Dragon Ball Z". I ran repeated tests between a level adjusted Saiyan 11barb. and a human 17barb. (both barbarians, both great swords, both using their full rage/forms) and after 8 battles the human actually had 5 of the wins. It seems pretty balanced to me but i would like some opinions / comments on it please and thank you

CURRENT PROGRESS

 Saiyans.doc (636K)
Number of downloads: 9 Updated 8/15/07

 Saiyan_Elite.doc (126.5K)
Number of downloads: 7 Updated 8/15/07

This post has been edited by Fisban42: 14 August 2007 - 03:14 PM

[super sorcerer]

Quote

I ran repeated tests between a level adjusted Saiyan 11barb. and a human 17barb. (both barbarians, both great swords, both using their full rage/forms) and after 8 battles the human actually had 5 of the wins.

It means that a saiyan with have an ECL of 6+class level. Becouse ECL is defined as:
racial HD + class levels + LA
it means that the level adjustment is only +2 (you forgot to take into acount the racial HD).

It seems as a fair character to me although I would give it at least +2 con or somthing and extend the time for beeing super saiyan. After all a 17th level barbarian can enter rage for many more rounds than a saiyan can be super saiyan 3 and it take for him much less efort, after all if they are about the same power while the saiyan is super saiyan 3 then the saiyan should be able to be a super saiyan 3 for the same amount of time as the barbarian can rage. Otherwise the barbarian is far more powerfull in the long run.

[Lyinginbedmon]

Super Saiyan should probably be a race-specific prestige class (Like Dwarven Defender), rather than a racial ability. After all, whilst DBZ might exaggerate it to stupidly-powerful levels, there's only supposed to be one Super Saiyan at a time. Meaning, the Saiyan race should be more powerful than your average Human (Probably with Str & Con bonuses) with some Racial HD.

[Fisban42]

Hey thanks for the input guys i really appreciate it!

"It means that a saiyan with have an ECL of 6+class level. Becouse ECL is defined as:
racial HD + class levels + LA
it means that the level adjustment is only +2 (you forgot to take into acount the racial HD)."

OOPS my bad il fix that.

"Super Saiyan should probably be a race-specific prestige class (Like Dwarven Defender), rather than a racial ability. After all, whilst DBZ might exaggerate it to stupidly-powerful levels, there's only supposed to be one Super Saiyan at a time. Meaning, the Saiyan race should be more powerful than your average Human (Probably with Str & Con bonuses) with some Racial HD."

Oh nice idea i like that, i think I'll make the base race, then make the "Saiyan Elite" Race specific prestige class, that should work out nicely!

*Goes back to the old drawing board*

[Fisban42]

Alright i took the Super saiyan modes away from the Race and put together a Saiyan Elite racial prestige class to include them and a few other things. Give em a look and let me know what you think.

Attachments removed (See 1st post for current progress)

This post has been edited by Fisban42: 14 August 2007 - 03:16 PM

[Raven Bloodmoon]

The ideas in the Saiyan Elite PrC look interesting, but a few things are a little weird.

Fistly, you can take this PrC at 5th level. Most PrCs require 6th level minimum through their prerequisites.

Secondly, you're giving a PC the equivalent of Greater Rage and removing the AC penalty from raging a full 5 levels before a normal barbarian would even get Greater Rage with the AC penalty. The super saiyan abilities only further build on this unbalanced ability.

I don't mind burning two greater rages to get a Mighty Rage with perks, but gaining Greater Rage without drawbacks so early is just nuts.

[Fisban42]

Hmm good point, il take a look at that later, i gotta go to work right now, thanks for the input, i might just increase the minimum BAB to +6. This is the 1st PrC i have attempted so bear with me . Thanks greatly for the input. (further changes to come)

[Fisban42]

Hmm ok i took a look at this again, I created a lvl 20 Human barbarian and a lvl 4Barbarian/10SaiyanElite Saiyan. Due to the Saiyan's ECL the Saiyan would get the equivalent on a greater rage at 4Barbarian/2Saiyan Elite (lvl 6) but would need equivalent experience points to that of a lvl 12 character to do so, so technically including the ECL the Human Barbarian would get the rage 1 level sooner at level 11.

At 190,000 experience (given that the Human Barbarian and the Saiyan adventured together and gained the same amount of experience) The Human would have reached level 20 Barbarian, and the Saiyan would only have reached 4 Barbarian / 10 Saiyan Elite. The Human would have 20D12 (240max) + con HP, while the saiyan would have 14D12 (168max) + con +4D8 (32max) HP, so the Human outshines the Saiyan here. The Human Barbarian has a total of 6rages per day at level 20, the Saiyan with 4 levels of barbarian and 10 levels of Elite also has 6 rages per day (2 from barbarian and 4 racial). The non raging Human would have a BAB of 20, and the non raging Saiyan would have a BAB of 17, again Human Barbarian wins(if you include the fact that the saiyan gets a +6 strength the their BAB would be tied). During full rage the human would have +4 to his BAB from rage, The Saiyan on the other hand in full "Super Saiyan 3" + Barb rage could accumulate a +7 to his BAB (+3 more from his Saiyan racial strength bonus of +6) witch results in the Saiyan overpowering the human by 3 BAB (At the cost of 3 out of 4 of the Saiyan's daily racial rages, leaving the Saiyan with only 1 more Barbarian rage and 1 more Saiyan rage for the day; while the Human would have 5 Rages remaining for the day. Saves between the two are pretty similar. The Saiyan gains Movement speed (both from his race and from his Special forms) totaling to +30 when in his full SS3 mode, this may be overpowering in some situations, but i think due to the fact that he must expend 3 times the amount of rages as the barbarian to gain this it is warranted. The only truly overpowering aspect of the saiyan vs the human that i can see was the AC issue witch i fixed.... i think. Instead of saying that the saiyan takes no AC penalty from any of his rages I instead left his normal "Saiyan rage" "Super Saiyan" and "Super Saiyan 2" with the penalty, and instead reserved it for his final form "Super Saiyan 3". I think this voiding of AC penalty during his "Super Saiyan 3" rage is a good way of balancing the fact that the Saiyan must use 3 times the rages to accomplish it. The Saiyan would have 7 bonus feats at level 14 (including the two from his creation) the Human would have 7 also, But the Saiyan has to spend 2 of his feats on (in my honest opinion normally useless feats) in order to unlock the Saiyan Elite PrC.

The only truly unbalancing about the Saiyan would be if it were a full moon and he could add 2 size categories and a +8 more str and con mod and a +4 natural AC into his full rage stats, but honestly how many of you keep track of when a full moon will occur in your campaigns? The Great ape is there more for keeping true with the saiyan race rather than battle tactics, and i see a GM using a full moon as a part of the storyline rather than a player using it for more power.

Anyways... that was a lot of typing... I'll repost the changes i made to the PrC; any other suggestions, or corrections in my methods would be very appreciated. I want this to be balanced as best as possible because i have a player who is frothing at the mouth to play this in my next campaign ><.

Attachments removed, (See 1st post for current progress)

This post has been edited by Fisban42: 14 August 2007 - 03:20 PM

[Raven Bloodmoon]

You've got a point. I forgot to factor in ECL. I'm still a little worried about the lack of AC penalty during your rages, though. Then agian, you're not gaining daily uses of rage from this class either. It might work out okay.

And just so you know, I keep track of the phases moon, as well as the seasons and weather patterns. It adds depth to the world.

[Fisban42]

Well like i said if you take a look at the PrC again i took away the AC thing on all but their most powerful rage witch uses 3 out of their 4 saiyan rages for the day The non negative ac is based not only off the fact that they have control over their form but also the fact that they gain a +20 movement from it (making them harder to hit)

"And just so you know, I keep track of the phases moon, as well as the seasons and weather patterns. It adds depth to the world."

Wow impressive >< i don't have nearly a good enough memory or organizational skills to pull that off lol guess im just a novice GM

Again thanks for all the help you guys are giving

This post has been edited by Fisban42: 14 August 2007 - 04:10 PM

[Raven Bloodmoon]

Memory nothin'. I just make a calender and track by that. I had found a really good random weather/moon phase/season/holiday-travker plus journal program, but I have since lost it and can't remember what website I found it on. But that made life REAL easy. Even did sunset, sunrise, dew point, etc. for whatever climate you happened to be in. You'd basically stat out the planet your world emulates and give it your coordinates and it'd even track length of day changes and stuff i fyou moved further north or south. It was really cool.

And yeah, I didn't re-read your PrC. It all looks good now, I'd say. Nice job.

[Fisban42]

Wow that program sounds awesome XD im gonna have to keep an eye out for it =P

And thanks for the compliment, and all the help from everyone. [WOMBAT] now i gotta find something else to occupy my time

[Raven Bloodmoon]

Stat out a death cat for us.

[Fisban42]

A "Death Cat"? what is this death cat you speak of? Some sort of undead feline of diminutive stature with a touch attack that drains levels? OK!

[Raven Bloodmoon]

This is a death cat.