[Raven Bloodmoon]

After talking with several people, it has occurred to me that WotC's various environmental sourcebooks (Standstorm, Frostburn, etc.), while not all that bad, are not guilded treasures. To this end, I'd like to compile a set of d20 rules and conditions to handle all things environment-related as well as review and potentially revise the various conditions given in the DMG and MMI. The latter is not so much intended to be a rewrite as a compilation and expansion of existing conditions.

Who here thinks that it would be beneficial to have more comprehensive, acurate, and flavorful environmental rules? Is anyone interested in helping put this together?

[Raven Bloodmoon]

Here's a suggested outline for everyone to see and add to:

Quote

1. Climates
----- a. Warm
----- b. Cold
----- c. Temperate
----- d. Other Possiblities - (anything else we think up, possibly weird, non-RL ones)
2. Environments
----- a. High Elevation
----- b. Underwater
----- c. Coastal Regions
----- d. Low Precipitation
----- e. High Precipitation
----- f. Hills & Mountains
----- g. Plains & Plateaus
----- h. Subterranean
3. Weather
----- a. Wind
----- b. Precipitation
----- c. Natural Disasters
4. Hazards
----- Acid, Starvation, Dehydration, Asfixiation, Poison, Smoke, Darkness, Fire, Lava, etc.
5. Conditions
----- Blinded, Immobilized, Checked, Confused, etc.

Here is a more detailed version I have compiled briefly.
[attachment=218:attachment]

[Dthclaw]

I like what you're doing here. The environment books focus too much on character options and not enough on clarifying and fleshing out the environment rules. I personally would find this very useful, if for no other reason than I wouldn't have to dig out four or five books just to figure out an area's accurate conditions.

[Raven Bloodmoon]

Does this mean you'll help. I live in a subtropical climate surrounded by water and swamp. I really don't know what the cold is like, nor tornados, let alone some of the other stuff mentioned. I figure regardless, it'll need proper research, but firsthand experience always helps a lot, too.

[Edit]
I also want to clarify that this is intended to be a resource for the DM more than players. I figure after the initial rules and fluff are set forth for the DM, character options can follow in a second installment.

[Vaskre]

I'm not very well traveled, but I've lived most of my life around the coast, or in a desert. So I might be able to tell you a thing or two about all that. Of course, I'm interested in developing these rules. I think we just need to get some people who've lived in different climates so we can get a good idea of what daily life is like in those areas.

[Dthclaw]

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Does this mean you'll help. I live in a subtropical climate surrounded by water and swamp. I really don't know what the cold is like, nor tornados, let alone some of the other stuff mentioned. I figure regardless, it'll need proper research, but firsthand experience always helps a lot, too.

Sure. I can definitely help on sections covering Temperate Plains That and let you know what a REAL winter is like.

And... holy hell, Vaskre lives!

[Vaskre]

Dthclaw, on Aug 5 2007, 12:54 PM, said:

And... holy hell, Vaskre lives!

Yes, I do, fortunately! And I'm not undead either, I swear it!

In all seriousness, I've been around a lot, I just haven't been keeping up with the forums. Things seemed a bit deadish when I dropped by last. Then Raven dropped me an IM with this little thread, and I thought, "Ah, what the hell, I'll hop in."

And now, a real comment so that I don't derail this thread:

So just what IS a real winter like anyways?

[Dthclaw]

Quote

Yes, I do, fortunately! And I'm not undead either, I swear it!

In all seriousness, I've been around a lot, I just haven't been keeping up with the forums. Things seemed a bit deadish when I dropped by last. Then Raven dropped me an IM with this little thread, and I thought, "Ah, what the hell, I'll hop in."

Awesome. Glad to have you back and posting.

Quote

So just what IS a real winter like anyways?

Real winter is a lot harsher than that hinted at in the DMG.

Real winter is when, over a period of two days, you have hard driving rain... and then on the third day the temperature drops so much that it becomes hard driving snow. All the water flash-freezes on every piece of vegetation - every tree, every leaf, every flower, and every blade of grass looks like it was carved from colored ice. Meanwhile, the snow is continuing to accumulate. Soon you have trees with branches covered with hundreds if not thousands of pounds of snow and ice. Water that had run into the streets has frozen - no vehicle is safe to drive, not even a city bus or snowplow. Temperatures continue to drop - before long, buildings that are not served by a buried power line lose electricity. Water pipes burst. Emergency crews are paralyzed, and nothing moves at the city, county, or state level. Simply walking out the front door - if possible - is dangerous, if not from wind chills well below zero then from the heat leeching by snow that gets in your pants and shows (or coat, if the wind is still going) or from falling on ice.

And this is in March.

[Raven Bloodmoon]

Okay. It is decided. You're writing the bit about temperate seasons.

It also sounds like we may want to change the heat and cold rules to just reflect a range of temperature from "burned alive" to "frozen solid." Then just do fluff on what seasons are like in "warm" "temperate" and "cold" climates. I don't know that we really want to get into flora and fawna, though, as that starts to turn things into a monster manual of sorts.

We might want to drag Rin back to the forum he's suppose to be moderating to tell us about canadian winters. I'm sure that's a level of HOLY CRAP MY SNOT FROZE MY NOSE SHUT that none of us have experienced. What do you think?

[Vaskre]

Raven Bloodmoon, on Aug 5 2007, 02:02 PM, said:

Okay. It is decided. You're writing the bit about temperate seasons.

It also sounds like we may want to change the heat and cold rules to just reflect a range of temperature from "burned alive" to "frozen solid." Then just do fluff on what seasons are like in "warm" "temperate" and "cold" climates. I don't know that we really want to get into flora and fawna, though, as that starts to turn things into a monster manual of sorts.

We might want to drag Rin back to the forum he's suppose to be moderating to tell us about canadian winters. I'm sure that's a level of HOLY CRAP MY SNOT FROZE MY NOSE SHUT that none of us have experienced. What do you think?

I'll try to get my friend who lives in New Brunswick to write up a piece on winter in Canada. I'm sure it'll be interesting, to say the least.

As for writing things up, I suppose I could write a thing or two on deserts and coastal regions... Although, really, for the coast in California at least, there's not much to say.

[Dthclaw]

Well, let's see, how's this for an introduction to the Temperate section:

"A temperate climate is an amalgam of Warm and Cold climates. Though a few fortunate places have mild fluctuations between their winter and summer months, for many Temperate regions only spring and autumn comfortable and hospitable. During the winter, a Temperate region becomes cold, often bitterly so (though still more hospitable than Cold climates), with a great amount of precipitation that often reaches storm strength. Conversely, these same regions become blazing hot in the summer months, often dangerously so (though in a different way from that of Warm regions). During the summer, great storms roll over a Temperate land - severe storms, floods, and brush fires are common. The biggest danger in a Temperate region, however, is the unpredictable nature of the weather. Temperature, humidity, wind, and even storm formation is subject to explosive changes. Only on coastal temperate regions is the weather moderately hospitable. Elsewhere, however, winter and summer kill the unprepared."

Let's see, hazards...

Winter-
Blizzards
Wind Chills
Freezing Rain
Ice
Hypothermia
Frostbite
Windstorms

Summer-
Thunderstorms
Tornadoes
Super Cell Thunderstorms
Flash-Floods
Windstorms
Wildfires
Humidity and Related Dangers
Sun
Insects
Hyperthermia
Sunstroke

[Raven Bloodmoon]

Looking good. I suppose I can expound on tropical storm through hurricane force winds and subtropical conditions. I just am not sure if Florida counts as Warm or Temperate. God knows I sweat a lot, but

One thing that occurred to me is that a location's climate seems to be a function of its yearly teperatures, precipitation, and weather patterns. So for crunch, I'm thinking that we should just describe these independant of the Cold, Temperate, and Warm descriptions. Then we can use the fluff entries for each to tie in the rules and how they apply to those generalized climates. But like you said, temperate coastal regions have far more mild temperatures than inland temperate zones. Similarly, if Florida is considered Warm, we're nothing heat-wise compared to landlocked places like Arizona.

That's just an idea. Either way, I think I'll start trying to work out some stuff of the mechanics for winds. I find those to be among the most lacking in the DMG, imo.

[Elmorwen]

I've been to Arizona and Utah in the summer, and you're right, purely from a temperature standpoint, Florida can't touch it. However, many would consider Florida summers less tolerable. 104+ degrees F in the shade is awful, to be sure, but it's usually accompanied by 10-20% humidity, meaning that simply misting oneself with water is enough to cool down significantly since it evaporates so quickly. The worst part is when the wind dies down and you can't find any shade, like what happened to me in Canyonlands national park in Utah. And it's true what they say - Phoenix is hotter than Hell's kitchen. Even still, I'd take it over a bad Chicago summer day (90-100 degrees and 100% humidity) in a second. At least the desert cools down at night.

If I'm thinking of the right incident that Dth is referring too, it was actually in late February. I took some pictures.

http://i54.photobuck...an/IMG_0368.jpg
http://i54.photobuck...an/IMG_0367.jpg

Though it's hardly a common occurence, I can remember winters in the Midwest where the windchill got below -70 degrees F. The best way I can describe that feeling is if you took a bunch of needles, coated them with water, and froze them solid. Now jam them into your face. Yeah, it's kinda like that.

[Dthclaw]

Was it in February? I thought CyCon was in March... blargh.

But, yeah, that's a pretty accurate description of what super low wind chills feel like.

[Raven Bloodmoon]

Cool description. I like you already.

So how about we start translating some of this into mechanics? It may suck to be in the cold or the humid heat, but I think the point we're trying to get at here is to set up a system for visiting pain upon...err....I mean....moderately realistically simulating appropriate effects in game.

For instance, why do you die when you're in the cold? I eat ice and it doesn't kill me. (An example...)