[Doomdreamer]

Okay, so I have been really, really, really, buisy and well, lazy lately, and now I am ready to rant. Today's rant is about plot and why I sometimes want to beat dms over their head. So straight from the depths of the Innerphane from the PLane of Oerth, here is my rant.

Okay, lets say you got your group together and your ready to game. You pull out your notes and such for DMing, priding over your latest dungeon crawl, castle seige or captured princess or whatever. Now you begin.

You party encounters a caravan and they talk about how the Duke's Daughter has been kidnapped and now the ransom has been paid but no princess. You as a DM, like so many out there are betting your PCs are raring to go. But you get the comment, "Whatever, know where a dragon hoard is so we can get new stuff?" You sit there, speachless, and wondering how in the hell you can get them on target of your painstakeingly created plotline. Tough cookies DM, your players don't care, and well, why should they?

If you were watching the news and the Mayor's daughter was kidnapped would you gather 4 buds and go investigate? No. Thats what police are for. But what if your best friend's sister was missing? You and your buds (most likely) would be out pounding the street looking for the lass.

The key theme here is personal attachment to the situation. Take the same party I mentioned earlier. Say the magic wand dealer they love to hit up for those pixie sticks he calls cure light wounds wands has had his daughter kidnapped and he is too distraught to make or sell much of anything. That party is gonna be pissed and turn up entire kingdoms in search of that woman and woe be to any cult thats caught trying to sacrifice her.

The thing is, you have to hit where the PCs care. Take their stuff and then introduce bigger and nastier beasties who are connected. Say the daughter was from an enclave of priests of Nerull. The main priest gets away, the party will chase down the villain to a bigger enclave, revealing the priests have a bigger plot. Well, while they are here, they start cleaning up NE booty. You see, if you make ties from something personal, its easy to lead PCs down roads to bigger and better things. Rarely do PCs stop in the middle of a plot, they are very hard to manuever in to one thought. Sure their first few adventures are going to be caravan guarding and treasure hunting, but this is so they can get to know Friendly NPCs and such so you can have them Kidnapped or wronged in some manner that the PCs can help with, so you can manipulate the poor sods in to a cohesive plot. I know its devious, but you are playing all the villains right?

So go out there and kidnapp Sword deallers and inkeepers and forgot all about princesses. That makes PCs care.

This is the Doomdreamer signing off.

[Gamemasta]

Well there can always be rewards offered for the poeple they "don't care about" or bounties on the bad guys who captured them. That tends to motivate players.
For instance, in our current game a group of elven maidens were captured, and the only person whom gave a [WOMBAT] was the female elf in the party. Me being a half-orc who the elves hate, did not care, the two dwarves whom the elves had been at war with didn't care, the 1/2 dark elf didn't care. But once the emmisaries from the royal elvin house started offering up rewards on the whereabouts and rescue of the maidens we started to care.

[Darius]

my players were offered a minor title to get them hooked into the current campaign.They had to help an npc (My former character) , investigate the disappearence of a trade delegation.In return they would be given a minor title(knighthoods) and appropriate lands with it - not a bad offer for 1st levels(At the time).They solved the problem (A plot against their employer , the local Duke , by a neihbouring lord) , but in doing so , they annoyed their employer with their screwup's , so they now have to do the major quest of the campaign to get their titles .
Of course , when they finish , it will be a case of "A knighthood , So what!".

D

[PlaneTouchedOne]

Darius, on Jun 17 2004, 11:34 PM, said:

my players were offered a minor title to get them hooked into the current campaign.They had to help an npc (My former character) , investigate the disappearence of a trade delegation.In return they would be given a minor title(knighthoods) and appropriate lands with it - not a bad offer for 1st levels(At the time).They solved the problem (A plot against their employer , the local Duke , by a neihbouring lord) , but in doing so , they annoyed their employer with their screwup's , so they now have to do the major quest of the campaign to get their titles .
Of course , when they finish , it will be a case of "A knighthood , So what!".

D

What did you use to get the characters together in the first place? I'm having trouble figuring that one out, without just railroading them into it. The best idea I've come up with so far is to have them summoned to the middle of the wilderness by a servant of a god in human form (the god screws with their heads and they are drawn to the place). Then the servant gives them a magic ring of water breathing (it looks like a nice ring, nothing more or less), tells them to go to a coastal town where they will get further insturctions, and that they will get a lot of goodies if they complete the task given to them at the town. Dosen't seem very adequate though.

[Darius]

PlaneTouchedOne, on Jun 18 2004, 10:31 AM, said:

What did you use to get the characters together in the first place? I'm having trouble figuring that one out, without just railroading them into it.

I used a cliche , the players are friends of the NPC and he asked them to help ,they could have said no , but throw in the idea of a title and I dont know a Player that will say no.
they were given the choice of a title or 1000gp each and they took the title

D

[PlaneTouchedOne]

Darius, on Jun 18 2004, 04:56 AM, said:

PlaneTouchedOne, on Jun 18 2004, 10:31 AM, said:

What did you use to get the characters together in the first place? I'm having trouble figuring that one out, without just railroading them into it.

I used a cliche , the players are friends of the NPC and he asked them to help ,they could have said no , but throw in the idea of a title and I dont know a Player that will say no.
they were given the choice of a title or 1000gp each and they took the title

D

blah...i would have taken the title too. after a while gold just isn't worth much. i would gladly trade 1500 of my 2100 platnium pieces in Temple of Elemental Evil for another Ring of Protection +2.

[blacxthornE]

(Reply to the original message)
Well, that's why you use different adventures, isn't it? You place an adventure here, and an adventure there, and play them *if* PCs care.

In a campaign, I think it's best to make one adventure lasting from the beginning to the end of the campaign, which is about what PCs do care.
Then I scatter around some other adventures: Some for more experience, some for more gold, some for leading to more (usually secret) adventures, and some as surprises.

Any adventure not used through the campaign stays with me anyway, and I can use'em later...

[BrotherMouran]

PlaneTouchedOne, on Jun 18 2004, 01:26 AM, said:

Darius, on Jun 18 2004, 04:56 AM, said:

PlaneTouchedOne, on Jun 18 2004, 10:31 AM, said:

What did you use to get the characters together in the first place? I'm having trouble figuring that one out, without just railroading them into it.

I used a cliche , the players are friends of the NPC and he asked them to help ,they could have said no , but throw in the idea of a title and I dont know a Player that will say no.
they were given the choice of a title or 1000gp each and they took the title

D

blah...i would have taken the title too. after a while gold just isn't worth much. i would gladly trade 1500 of my 2100 platnium pieces in Temple of Elemental Evil for another Ring of Protection +2.

Titles such as knighthood are a very touchy thing to deal with. There are pros (you get lands, income, respect) and cons (you've just volunteered to be at your lord's beck and call and have very little choice when he asks you to do something. Also lots of responsibilities.) Lots of good come from a title, but the main thing a character has to remember is that he's sacrificing one of the things that probably led him to adventuring in the first place... his freedom.

[Ssri-Tel-Quessir Hitokiri]

I was wondering when I would see the next rant.

Getting a title isn't really that bad of a thing. I guess it would depend on the circumstances that led to you getting a title. When one of my characters became a Knight of the Hart after rescuing Prince Thrommel from the Temple of Elemental Evil, he pretty much just left the place and continued to do whatever he wanted to do, as did the others in my group. If Thrommel or Furyondy ever called for us, we would probably go but it would be more because we were good characters than because we had any considerable amount of loyalty to Furyondy. You probably could just say that we became honorary Knights of the Hart.

Also, being at the "beck and call" of your lord might not be that bad of a thing because it would give the DM an outlet for adventures. Your lord could call you all together and send you out to do something for him and you are on the adventure.

[BrotherMouran]

Ssri-Tel-Quessir Hitokiri, on Jun 18 2004, 01:47 PM, said:

Also, being at the "beck and call" of your lord might not be that bad of a thing because it would give the DM an outlet for adventures.  Your lord could call you all together and send you out to do something for him and you are on the adventure.

This is a boon for a DM... I was referring to it being restrictive for the character. Especially if you have a character who has a problem with authority figures. Also, a noble (for that is what knighthood is, one of the lower levels of nobility) who just goes about his business instead of tending to his lands and vassals (some of those responsibilities I mentioned previously) may eventually come home to find that he's lost all that and isn't terribily well liked (perhaps even hunted) for abandoning his duties.

[Gamemasta]

Not all PC's are interested in being knighted such as a Druid, or a Rogue.
You could offer other incentives such as status in a thieving guild, or a promotion in the druid circle, or a higher rank for a monk.
tournaments and other competetions are a good way to get the PC's together. But it takes some action on the PC's part and a willingness to cooperate.

[Doomdreamer]

Actualy, I think it is wonderful sometimes to let the PCs decide how they got together. It often leads to wonderful background developement. Often instituting other antagonists and NPCs of note. Sometimes DMs have little to no work if the PCs are given a tad bit of control.

[Ssri-Tel-Quessir Hitokiri]

BrotherMouran, on Jun 18 2004, 08:54 PM, said:

This is a boon for a DM... I was referring to it being restrictive for the character.  Especially if you have a character who has a problem with authority figures.

The character could always choose to not become knighted and refuse the title and such. Like Gamemasta said, it pretty much is up to the character and how the person role plays that character.