[Raven Bloodmoon]

Here's an idea I got from reading the old 2e dnd books. How about allowing characters to getsalt as many classes together as they want? There'd be a catch, of course. When they gained XP, it would be divided evenly among all of that PC's classes. Thus, you would effectively divine any XP you earn by the number of gestalt classes you have. More power at a slower rate of advancement. I think it might work. It use to be called Multiclassing. Now it's called gestalt because the term "multiclassing" belongs to what use to be "dual-classing". What do you all think? Hmm? Hmm? Hmm?

[Note: We need a Groucho Marks smily with little lifting eyebrows.]

[RedSlayer]

Well, from a balance prospective:
If you were to make gestalt "multiclassing", then I'd suggest to go ahead and make the jump and have 2E dual classing rules. (which are much different than the current installment)

I don't think it would be overpowered by any stretch of th imagination. In fact, at high levels it would be sorely underpowered. Concider: 20th level sorcerer vs. 10th level sorcerer with full BAB, a good fort save, and 6 bonus feats. (A fighter/sorc multiclass) We know who would win.

However, how would you handle something like a PrC? Would you force the player to *add it on*, or simply replace one of the exisiting classes?

[Greg Swifthands]

THAT is why Gestalt seemed so familiar when I saw it in UA. And wondered why Multi-classing got such a different... form in 3.0. Though I can see the Balance situation, but at the same time, if you're a 10th Level Sorcerer/Fighter/Cleric/Thief You'd probably kick arse, or are you saying the 20th level Sorcerer would beat the 10th Level Sorcerer/Fighter?

Also on a Side note, by old AD&D Rules and Dual Classing, only Human's could do it, as they didn't have Racial Level Caps, like the other races, that got to Multiclass.

[RedSlayer]

Greg Swifthands, on Mar 14 2007, 01:05 PM, said:

THAT is why Gestalt seemed so familiar when I saw it in UA. And wondered why Multi-classing got such a different... form in 3.0. Though I can see the Balance situation, but at the same time, if you're a 10th Level Sorcerer/Fighter/Cleric/Thief You'd probably kick arse, or are you saying the 20th level Sorcerer would beat the 10th Level Sorcerer/Fighter?

I'm saying a 20th level Sorcerer would wipe the floor with a 10th level gestalt character. Concider the stats: (note, they have the same amount of XP)

10th level								20th Level
Gestalt Sorc/Fighter			vs.		 Sorcerer
Hp: 10d10 (55)							20d4 (42)
BAB: 10/5								  BAB: 10/5
Saves: +7/+3/+7							 Saves: +6/+6/+12
Spellcasting: 5th level					Spellcasting: 9th level
Ability Scores: Str, Con, Cha				 Ability Scores: Cha, Con
Bonus Feats: 6							Bonus Feats: Find Familiar

I know who'd I'd take to win.

What I'm saying is that its more than fine at low levels, but after about level 3, the benefits are well below what you'd get by staying a straight class.

EDIT: Unless of course you are counting a Gestalt character for its actual level in calculating XP awards. Example: a 4th level gestalt character with 3 8th level buddies defeat a CR 8 encounter. The Gestalt character gets XP as a 4th level character defeating a CR 8. Then, it could work.

Quote

Also on a Side note, by old AD&D Rules and Dual Classing, only Human's could do it, as they didn't have Racial Level Caps, like the other races, that got to Multiclass.

I would of course take out the restriction. However, the structure is still adequate.

[Raven Bloodmoon]

I was thinking that you'd gain XP as your stated level. So if you're 4th level, then you'd get XP as a 4th level character, even if you're fighting CR 8 creatures. Some ad hoc stuff might need to be worked in if you are fighting something that would normally be beyond the realm of the XP tables, though.

I'll have to look into dual classing again and also give the PrC issue some thought. I would think that it'd work best if you just replace one of yoru gestalt levels with the PrC levels. I'm not sure if the 1 PrC at a time restriction should tay in effect or not, though. If I lifted it as a DM, I'd be real careful of potential breaks using standard PrCs.

One other option, depending on how things balance, is to alter the XP penalty to better suit balance. Since all classes have the same XP progression, it might be just as easy to make XP gained a function such as "XP Penalty (XP) = (XP x K) / # of Classes". This would allow you to temper the XP hit pretty easily, though it'd increase the math the DM would have to do. But at the same time, it could be compiled into a table pretty quickly and just distributed accordingly.

[Greg Swifthands]

You also have to remember in AD&D 2e Level 20 meant Retiring for a character (Or reaching the Level Cap for your race in that specific Class) So of course it would seem off. The way the games work are set for to seperate power settings.

Also, Multi-classing isn't only somewhat like Dual-Classing, as in AD&D 2e, When you dual classed... I believe you could no longer gain levels in that previous class, and wait till you new class is Equal To or Greater than the original class, otherwise you got some nasy XP penalities.

And also (-was reading the post before this while writing-) That was another issue, as in AD&D 2e Classes had Different XP progression.

Anyways, I see what you mean by the sorcerer kicking the gestalt's [CHAIR], mainly cause the 20th level sorcerer has access to 9th Level spells, like wish and such, I forget if Wish can kill things instantly.

[super sorcerer]

Sound interesting. I can't think of a way to break it. A singleclass character will probably still be stronger, but too stronger. Sound fair too me.