[Yorick]

I have just started running DND again after useing other systems for several years due to being tired of buying more books for the same system and not being as good 2nd ED.

Well my group final conviced me to DM 3.5 with gifting me the first 3 books.

The CR system looks good on paper but I am finding that with experanced players it is under gunned I have had to raise the CR at least 2 to 3 points to give them a run for there money.

So what toughts do you all have on this

[dragonhand777]

How many pcs are there?

From my understanding of the CR system, CRs are set for a party of four.
In other words, a werewolf has a CR of three, it was meant for an average party level of three.

And some thing else I learned: a couple of weeks ago, while I was at a buddies, he pulled up some kinda DM test (I think it was at WotC web site), one of the questions was 'what is the CR for a 7th level fighter?' I picked 7, and failed the question, then was given the answer which was 6. In a way it makes sense, but it does kinda (or did) throw me.

The DM chair is new to me as well. It'll be interesting to see how others respond.

[Yorick]

There are 8 players so I have been doubleing the normal account

[Post Sleeper]

Yep, that sounds about right, double the creatures for a double size party.

[Rintaran]

I would suggest changing your tactics with those critters. If your party is whacking them with ease, maybe you're forgetting to make use of the monster's special abilities, or are ignoring concealment. It also might be a good idea to form general battle plans for encounters. Every group of baddies always has a leader (and generally some kind of chain of command) who will direct the lessers in battle, this can allow you to take some more intelligent seeming combat techniques.

[Xorlarrin42]

Yeah...one of the factors in the CR system is the size of the group. I've discovered that multiple times.

As mentioned, how you use the full extent of the monsters is also important. When you're making encounters, make sure to have some kind of battle plan for them...for example, if you're using a group of hobgoblins, even they aren't battle-illiterate...use flanking, concealment, and battle aiding to your advantage. Also make sure to keep a CLOSE eye on special features...some of them are really under-used, and when used properly, can become incredibly nasty.

This way, you don't trip yourself up by thinking, "Maybe I should use a higher CR creature," and then end up throwing a pair of bodaks at a party that is hopeless to their death gaze.

[Gamemasta]

dragonhand777, on May 14 2004, 03:22 PM, said:

'what is the CR for a 7th level fighter?' I picked 7, and failed the question, then was given the answer which was 6. In a way it makes sense, but it does kinda (or did) throw me.

Actually you may have been right, if it was an Ogre fighter. The race of the creature/NPC also plays a part in the CR of an ancounter, so that question is incomplete.

[SchizofranicDM]

Of course to get a really good grip on what CR your group should face, do some play-testing with target CRs. you can even do this in gameplay with random encounters. Of course, there are risks that characters may die, but that's when the hand of god, (i.e. the DM) cames in. Just to test your group, have them face a ertain CR that you think they can handle. if the battle is too easy, try increasing the CR a bit until you find their limit. of course, at their limit, the battle will be very difficult and characters will most likely be nearing death. that's when, by chance of luck, the monsters flee or are smitten by some miracle. for example, the monsters hear the call of one of their own and flee combat to rally with their pack, or the monster misses an attack and hits the cavern wall instead, but with so much force that a boulder comes loose and splats it.

[blacxthornE]

Well, we don't have the DMG here in this beautiful country yet. So can anyone please tell me how the CRs are calculated for more than one monster?

An 8 CR monster and a 4 CR monster would make an encounter CR of...?

[SchizofranicDM]

First of all, i feel very sorry for you. how can a country deprive it's citizens of a DMG? But back to your question. CR determines the challenge of one monster. generally speaking, a CR 8 creature would be a good match for a party of four 8th level characters. However, when you add multiple monsters to the equation, the diffifulty is no longer based on CR but EL (Encounter Level). Two of your CR 8 creatures would be a challenge for a party of 10th level characters. and two CR 4 creatures would be a challenge for a party of 6th level characters. There really isn't an example of what the EL for a CR 8 and a CR 4 is, but from my best guess according to the text, it would be a challenge for a group of 7th to 8th level characters. and here's why: a CR 8 creature by itself is an EL 7, adding another creature that's two CR's less (CR 6) would increase the EL by one (EL 8); however, since a CR 4 is 4 less, it would be logical to assume that the EL would be lower, yet adding a creature should lend a DM to think that the encounter might be slightly higher. I'll try to add the EL table to the resources. (*note by saying a group of 7th level charaters, it is assumed that 7th level is the average level of the group and that the group is fairly close in level)

[blacxthornE]

Thanks a lot. It was EL then what I was trying to ask about, got that.

So it's basically:

A single monster has EL of its CR minus 1
Two monsters of the same CR have EL of one's CR plus 2
Two monsters of CRs two points apart have EL of the higher CR plus 1

Thanks again, this will help me a lot.

[SchizofranicDM]

Basically. I'm still gonna try to put the table on the resource list, but i've run into a couple of errors so far.

[blacxthornE]

Thanks. You've been so helpful. I think this is the good personality I'm talking to, eh Schizofranic?

[SchizofranicDM]

Who? what? i didn't say anything. you can't prove nothing!!!!

[Yorick]

SchizofranicDM, on May 19 2004, 08:17 AM, said:

Who? what? i didn't say anything. you can't prove nothing!!!!

yes we can.

We can manufacture any proof we want hahahahahahhaha