[Greg Swifthands]

So, I just read about the New class in Dungeonscape and I've noticed that every time WotC comes out with a new class with new Abilities they always Balance it out by saying "Oh You also get a ____ Pool to which you must spend to use these." Now I know lots of people like the Magic Points and Craft Points (UA 3.0). But is it just me or are the point systems the lazy way to "balance" a class's abilities out?

[Dthclaw]

Not really. Points are simply an easier way to track the relative powers of certain effects. There are some abilities and features that would actually prove too weak/too powerful if they were done in any other way. The Factotum, for example, would be far too powerful if its abilities were limited to x uses per time period. With points, you have versatility but are restricted from having too much power within that versatility.

Besides, it's not like previous forms of balancing these abilities weren't in fact a point system of some kind. Anything with a limited number of uses per time period is, in fact, a point-based system. Spells, bardic music, rage, hell, even a fair number of feats are in reality based on a point system. Honestly, the only things that weren't point-based already were at-will or inherent abilities.

[Raven Bloodmoon]

Okay, as a proponent of spell points and the father of a really weird bastard child involving psioniics, AE, and spell points, I would like first dibs on this one.

Yes. It is the lazy man's out in class construction. Any per diem usage of an ability is a serious copout unless there is a specific in-game reason for it, and I find it difficult to come up with those. There are a lot of other ways to balance out a power aside from making it a per diem ability or an [BLANK] pool ability. for example:

1) Make it less powerful and useable at will.
2) Make its use require some sort of a check, be it a level check, ability check, or skill check. A chance of failure always nerfs things a bit, and depending on the DM's style, gives him a LOT of leeway when it comes to fudging things.
3) If you are married to using a pool of points, make EVERYTHING draw on the SAME pool of points. Once several abilities are competing for a limited resource, they all collectively become less powerful because their use means not using something else.

That's three ways off the top of my head. I would actually rather like to see some discussion on other ways to make abilities non-per diem. I think it really takes away from a power when you only get it X/day or costs X points.

[rant]
That having been said and in defense of a single point-pool (and a hint as to the eventual direction I'd like to go with the Chi System I'm currently assaulting with a large mallet), I don't see much problem with it, if you explain it as a reservoire of personal power that you can use in different ways. It becomes even less of a copout, I think, if you allow it to recharge at a varrying rate, dependant on how active the person is (doesn't have to be super complicated, just enough to reflect hte difference between sitting on a beach and fighting a battle). At that point, you'd have a nice way of representign teh expenditure of personal power that is not truly on a per diem basis, though sleeping would be the most efficient way to restore lost power.
[/rant]

[JosephBlackly]

I agree with Raven on the "single pool for everything" idea, if only because it's a pain in the [CHAIR] to keep track of (potentially) power point reserves, a ki pool, spellfire, essentia, the Factotum's pool (whatever it's called)... Among others.

...Great. Now I have to make a character/NPC with as many seperate power pools (term stolen from CoH) as possible. Sure, he's gonna suck, but that's not the point.

[jack(tim)]

I have made a **Moderately* balanced character builder point system... just 'cause you guys know I hate Classes... and I still need to grind out a way to make it work with a points based spell/psionics system... Raven, do I hear joint-effort project in our future?

[Raven Bloodmoon]

Um...Have you seen how I'm approaching clerics and paaldins? I'm making a PrC for each god to represent each application, with some gods potentially having 3 to 4 PrCs. Yeah, I don't think classless is going to be calling me anytime soon, man. Sorry.

[jack(tim)]

Yes... but you have to admit that a "balanced" character (class) builder could help, ya? It's like I said when I started this rackett... it doesn't have to be used the way I intended it to... I made it so players could build their own characters without limitations... but you could use ths system to build classes... True?

[Greg Swifthands]

Well it was mostly a rant, but when I see pool I think Shadowrun or World of Darkness style "pools" Where you get a bunch of dice and roll them and determine your successes.

[Raven Bloodmoon]

Yes, Jack, you are right about the class-making thing. Personally, I'm starting ot get a better handle on making them without breakign them, but any guidelines might help.

[jack(tim)]

*Nods* And I could use some help on a decent points based magic system... trade?

I'll see you on AIM.