[Raven Bloodmoon]

I'm sure many of you ahve at least heard of the magic system I am working on, even if you're not sure how it works, so I hope that this will both serve to satisfy any curiosity you may have as well as provoke a little discussion.

The chi system I am using is a combination of point-based spellcasting, AE spellcasting, and psionics, and its bastard heretage is beginning to show. I will explain further. At its core, the chi system works exactly like the point-based casting system in Unearthed Arcana (including the devitalizing effects of magic, currently in the play-testing phase), with the following exceptions: spells may be augmented by expending additional chi; similar to psionics; everyone readies the basic spells and those spells remain readied until you ready new ones; and it is theoretically possible, though potentially suicidal to spend more chi than you have caster levels.

In Arcana Evolved, spells may be "heightened" or "diminished." A spell normally casts at its listed spell level, but a heightened spell would cast at one level higher than normal; while, a diminished spell casts at one level lower than normal. Heightened and diminished spells still do something similar to the unmodified spell, but either are more or less potent, respectively. This is wonderfully useful as it condenses the spell list greatly while nearly trippling the number of spell effects available. It also makes sense (to me, at least).

So I am wondering, is it worth it to incorporate this into the chi system as well? Do you think it would complicate matters too much? Do you think it would give casters too many options? Do you have any other concerns about this system?

[drhunter]

Personally I like that idea, but I also acknowledge that things often look alot better on paper than in practice. Since I haven't delt with your system much as it is, I don't know how it works even if I can guess, I can't give many educated suggestions.
I can give one suggestion though, find the one you like writing up the most and do that. Afterwards, add the other system as an option for DMs or players to choose from. I enjoy options, so I particularely enjoy options about how many options are available to me. That's just me though.

[Raven Bloodmoon]

I've been kind of leaning toward incorporating the heightened and diminished effects into this, so I think I might and then just see how it all playtests. First, though, I want to try to get a mash out a proper writeup of the chi system. As soon as I have one, I'll link to it on here. Like you said, options are fun, and this makes magic a lot more fluid than it traditionally is in DnD. Essentially, you have a set number of points per day for spellcasting, and a spell costs X points. You can modify the spell by spending more points, if you want. When you run out of points, you can't cast spells anymore. I plan on playtesting out some devitalizing effects that basically cause you to suffer adverse effects if you use more than half your points (i.e. 50% - fatigue, 25% - exhausted, and at 0 points unconscious). There are also ways to regain your points, of course, though they generally involve you not doing anything and resting a lot.

[jack(tim)]

We are starting to do too much of the same stuff Rave (off topic I know..., but I also, am working on my own homebrew spell system), Definitely include the dimished/heightened spell thing, spell casters get kind of a raw deal starting off and you know it... (unless we're talking about gestalts again...) Although IMHO you should include a feat that allows for the gaining of magic points at the cost of HP... works a bit like the stigmata feat from the BoED. Temporary MP for a spell at the cost of HP damage... susceptible to bleeding, etc. I think that there is a feat somewhat similar to this... but don't quote me.

[Raven Bloodmoon]

Welcome back, Jack(Tim)!

Dude, way ahead of you. I've already drawn up an extended PrC that is based on using people's (not necessarily your own) blood to cast spells. It's really not a nice class, but it should be great for NPCs. Personally, I'm retaining blood casting like that for evil purposes. Just fits the motif way too well.

[jack(tim)]

Funny... that's how I would have went about it too... lol

[super sorcerer]

I think you should consider using feats that expand the ways to diminish and heighten spells. Maybe someone could specialize in some kind of magic so it will cost him less chi points to cast spells of that kind.
Consider arcane monsters that have chi regeneration, chi regeneration 1 mean that the monster regain 1 chi point every round. It would be a nice chalenge to fight with a monster with chi regenaration (and perhaps a feat could be able to give you chi regenaration for a limited duration).
This magic system is better for NPC becouse the NPC will be able to cast only their most powerfull spells becouse they will usualy fight only one battle.

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We are starting to do too much of the same stuff Rave (off topic I know..., but I also, am working on my own homebrew spell system), Definitely include the dimished/heightened spell thing, spell casters get kind of a raw deal starting off and you know it... (unless we're talking about gestalts again...) Although IMHO you should include a feat that allows for the gaining of magic points at the cost of HP... works a bit like the stigmata feat from the BoED. Temporary MP for a spell at the cost of HP damage... susceptible to bleeding, etc. I think that there is a feat somewhat similar to this... but don't quote me.

This system of HP for chi is nice as long as you don't have access to healing spells that heal more than what they inflict. You must beware if you do that since otherwise a healer will effectively have endless chi.

[jack(tim)]

Actually the way I run the feat is a 2HP for 1MP, and in my system it takes 5MP to burn out a healing spell... (1d8+lvl HP - 5 MP) So it only really becomes a problem at this rate if the character is lvl 6+. but you're right... they could essentially have infinite MP.

[Raven Bloodmoon]

Oy veh. Okay, remind me NOT to go there. Though I might allow something nasty like Concsitution damage for MP that cannot be healed magically. Then again, just adding, "...cannot be healed magically..." to your feat, Jack, would fix it.

[jack(tim)]

You would also have to deny Alchemical Healing (which is a valuable alternative in certain campaign settings).

What if your HP and MP were the same thing, permanently, and you couldn't heal through magic or potions? Reminds me of Maburaho and The Covenant....

Aside from that... do you mean that they can no longer be healed magically? Or that the damage incurred in that fashion cannot be healed magically?

[Raven Bloodmoon]

"Damage resulting from teh use of this feat cannot be avoided by any means, including but not limited to magical healing, and alchemical potions, and can only be healed naturally."

Cut and paste where appropriate.

[super sorcerer]

Every set of rules there have to be logic. That would mean that there should be a logic explanation why can't you heal that damage magicaly. Maybe an equale rate of 1 chi point per HP for that feat and 1 HP per chi point for the healing spell would make this feat reasonable. That way if you have this feat you could easily trade between HP and chi points without becoming too powerfull.