[JosephBlackly]

I have a few ideas for an interesting band of (anti-)heroes, but I'm having an exceedingly difficult time determining the best race/class combinations to get to where they should be. I'm all about weird races and templates, so don't leave those out. Here's a head's up... And feel free to throw such characters into your own campaign as NPCs or whatnot.

1) Martial Assassin
The assassin class from the DMG is more geared towards, well, rogues. I'm attempting to build an assassin-like character with a little meat on his bones, so to speak. I'd prefer his HD to be no less than d8s, which makes it difficult. Prestige class of choice is Ghost-Faced Killer (Complete Adventurer), as it has a more martial lean to it. I was thinking something along the lines of Hexblade/Fighter/Swashbuckler matched with Scout/Ranger. Primary stats would probably be Strength, Constitution, and Charisma.

2) The Silver-Tongued Noble Spy
This is the easiest one, no doubt. Most likely just a Rogue, Bard, or Noble (Dragonlance d20) leading up to Spymaster (Complete Adventurer). Completely ignore combat ability; he is a diplomat and information-gatherer - loads of knowledge skills, diplomacy, gather information, and bluff. Primary stats would be Intelligence and Charisma.

3) Aura Caster
I don't know how long I've been struggling with this build. I'm trying to make an armored caster mixed with Marshal (Miniature's Handbook) making sure to take Leadership at a later level. Either Warmage (Complete Arcane) or Beguiler (PHB II) as the spelling half.

4) Devourer of Men
Half-Illithid evil guy who literally eats an entire person. Illithid savant (Savage Species) prestige class. I found a feat that allows you to ritually eat a person's heart after killing him to regain HP. So after eating his brains, he eats his heart. Then, use Trophy Collector (PHB II) to make a pretty necklace out of them, to scare away others. Lots of grapple.

[Dthclaw]

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1) Martial Assassin
The assassin class from the DMG is more geared towards, well, rogues. I'm attempting to build an assassin-like character with a little meat on his bones, so to speak. I'd prefer his HD to be no less than d8s, which makes it difficult. Prestige class of choice is Ghost-Faced Killer (Complete Adventurer), as it has a more martial lean to it. I was thinking something along the lines of Hexblade/Fighter/Swashbuckler matched with Scout/Ranger. Primary stats would probably be Strength, Constitution, and Charisma.

Well, I suppose you could go the tradtional Human route. Alternatively, maybe a Dwarf or a Half-Giant (since they're considered Large for weapon wielding but not mechanically). Or perhaps a Thri-Kreen (for the physical) or a Halfling (being athletic buggers with [WOMBAT] good abilities).

I personally wouldn't use the Hexblade for this unless you're going all out with it. Level dipping into that class is just too [golly gee] cheap for the most potent abilities - make it awesome without the munchkining Ranger was actually my first thought for an assassin. Or ninja. Cuz c'mon, that black guy in Serenity was just creepy, even without the supernatural powers.

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2) The Silver-Tongued Noble Spy
This is the easiest one, no doubt. Most likely just a Rogue, Bard, or Noble (Dragonlance d20) leading up to Spymaster (Complete Adventurer). Completely ignore combat ability; he is a diplomat and information-gatherer - loads of knowledge skills, diplomacy, gather information, and bluff. Primary stats would be Intelligence and Charisma.

If you don't care too much where the race is from, one word: Changeling. Completely geared towards infilitration and manipulation.

Maybe consider a multi-class skill-class/caster-class. Sorcerer would be best from the infiltration standpoint (no spellbook to lose or worry about), though versatility wise a Wizard or Wu Jen would win out for a long-term character. Or.... actually, hell, make it psychic. An Erudite (back of Complete Psionic, IIRC - I'll flail myself later for bringing it up) is a Psion that can learn powers, and still enjoys the fact that powers have no S,M,V, or F components (as far as I know)

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3) Aura Caster
I don't know how long I've been struggling with this build. I'm trying to make an armored caster mixed with Marshal (Miniature's Handbook) making sure to take Leadership at a later level. Either Warmage (Complete Arcane) or Beguiler (PHB II) as the spelling half.

Don't know anything about the Marshall class, unfortunately, so I can't help you there. However, my two cents on a wartime character would be to pick the spellcasting class that has 'war' in its name.

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4) Devourer of Men
Half-Illithid evil guy who literally eats an entire person. Illithid savant (Savage Species) prestige class. I found a feat that allows you to ritually eat a person's heart after killing him to regain HP. So after eating his brains, he eats his heart. Then, use Trophy Collector (PHB II) to make a pretty necklace out of them, to scare away others. Lots of grapple.

That's... a little creepy. Obviously going to have levels in Ranger for the Trophy Collector (prereq, no?). For PrCs, this guy needs to take Reaving Mauler (CW). Period. Only this time he's not breaking their arms or back, he's eating their freaking brain o.o

[Raven Bloodmoon]

1) Martial Assassin -

I'd suggest a monk or a ninja, personally. both get sufficient sneaking skills and can dish out melee or ranged damage. Additionally, they won't hurt for lack of noisy, clanking armor. Also, if you have it and want to open that can of worms, Swordsage from Tome of Battle can be made to be an excellent assassin. Heavy martial skill, martial maneuvers and stances that let you sneak, hide, or melee like a Tazmanian devil high on crystal meth are easily enough acquired. Personally, I'd go that route if I could talk my DM into allowing it.

2) The Silver-Tongued Noble Spy
Depending on how evil your antiheros are, I'd go with the Disciple of Asmodeus PrC from Book Of Vile Darkness. It's one of the few PrCs that are worth taking, but it is particularly good for slick leader types. As for base classes, you'll want some spellcasting, like a Favored Soul, or Shugenja, or bard, and the rest in rogue. Skill points are important and I believe the PrC requires some casting ability. The ones I listed cast spells spontaneously, so you need not worry about losing important castign implements. Also, a Favored Soul is every bit as tough in a fight as a cleric.

3) Aura Caster
Marshal? You're goign to make me actually open a book. [WOMBAT] you! I'll edit this into a proper response in a little bit.

4) Devourer of Men
Have you considered the Soul Eater PrC from the Book Of Vile Darkness? It essentially lets you eat your victim's soul while you're at it and grant syou lots of abilities from it. You'd get an energy drain attack, and some stuff for 24 hours after eating souls like a +4 Str bonus, a bonus to saves, a bonsu to Constitution, ability to assume the victim's shape, bonus to Dex, create wights under its control, and the kicker at 10th level - everytime you drain energy, you gain a +2 bonus to the saving throw DC of all your spell-like adn supernatural abilities. nifty benefits, I think.

As far as base class is concerned, fighter would work quite well, I think. Just remember to take Improved Grapple early on and Improved Trip. After that, it's all just feats for your PrC prerequisites, really. I'd suggest monk levels, but you'll gain any needed BAB faster with a fighter and can still pick up the feats relatively fast, so you can get right into yoru PrCs as early as possible.

[RedSlayer]

1 ) Martial Assassin:
"Assassins" in D&D are usually the "One Hit Kill" types. That being said, its really hard to do without magic or something like "Death Attack", so Assassin's generally arent beefy.

However, Raven brings up a very good option. The Swordsage who specializes in Shadow Hand will be a very effective assassin type who has a little meat on his bones, for sure.

2 ) Silver-tounged aristocrat: Actually, combining the social skills with the knowledge skills are fairly hard to do, as they all need heavy skill point investement to be worthwhile at all. The Bard is your best bet to get them all as class skills, but you're going to want to pump up INT over CHA. (while that may be counter-intutive, the ranks you put in the skills will soon heavily out-weigh the CHA benefit).

3 ) This is going to be the hardest of the hard. I'm not joking on this one. Marshall's are notorious for being a weak base class. And I mean NOTORIOUS. If you are hardcore about making one, beg borrow and kill to get them full BAB.

Mixing it with a caster is going to be this character's deathbed. Seriously, that is incredibly hard to do. Go beguiler. Warmage is going to doooooom you. Its weak right off the bat from shear lack of utility. (no buffs, no utility, no nothing) Now, cut into its caster levels and the only thing its good at (direct damge), the class is hurt beyond repair.
Going beguiler is going to be difficult too. While its spellcasting is better and not going to be *severely* hurt by multi-classing, you're going to need INT to cast, so you've just included another ability score to bump. (read= bad!). Though it may go for a more flavorful bit. Being able to influence your allies as well as your enemies.
Its a tough call on the casting part. You are probably better off going *warlock*. Seriously. Armored casting, invocations that are not severly caster level dependent, Hideous blow, and when you take a PrC that improves caster level, your Eldritch Blast and Invocation amount improves. Pick up things like "charm", and a few others that are *influenceing abilities*, and you've got what you want, I think.

I highly recommend the eldritch knight, but you'd miss out on more auras. The only thing I can think of to fix that would be to have some good house ruling. Something to the effect of dropping the eldritch knight's BAB to 3/4, but improving your aura's along with your caster level.

You could not have picked a tougher build

4 )illithid savant is always a fun class. For both the player and DM. DM because he can now "officially" give illithids skills, feats, and spells beyond the norm to suit what he wants. Players, because you can hunt down what you want to have

He's going to be high level, so make sure you give him stuff appropriate for this.

He's your most sound build. Can never go wrong with that PrC.

[JosephBlackly]

Good ideas all 'round, gang. I guess I'll recap what I got from it...

1) Martial Assassin

I don't have the Tome of Battle, so I have no idea what the balls a Swordsage is. Assassins aren't that meaty, indeed, so I had already ruled them out. But so are ninjas.

Ranger probably is the best way to go; their skill points make it easy to get into a lot of different PrCs. And, well, there's always Favored Enemy. Ghost-Faced Killer was my prefered PrC for this build because of its HD (d8s), full base attack, and frightening attack (it's instant-kill). Combined with Improved Bluff, it could be a nightmarish fighter.

2) Silver-Tongued Noble Spy

Changling says it all. A bard would make the knowledge aspect of the build easier (Gods, I love Bardic Knowledge), and the skill points saved could easily fill the gap a slightly lower Charisma might bring.

Alternatively, a rogue/wizard focusing on enchantment or illusion could fit the build just as easy. For prestige, I was thinking Spymaster or Loremaster, depending on whether I was going more Intelligence or Charisma. I might look into Desciple of Asmodeus.

3) Aura Caster

I see Red knows all about the weakness of the Marshal. But personally, I like it. Hard to play sometimes, but a good solid RP.

I never thought of the Warlock. As far as alignment went, I only wanted him to be Lawful. Lawful Evil is fine by me. He was suppose to be a nuker, actually, so going Warlock or Warmage would fit the character the best. Eldritch Knight is the perfect prestige.

4) Devourer of Men

I'm glad I got the reaction that I wanted, Dth. And the prerequisites for Trophy Collector are actually very very low... Pretty much any 3rd-level character can have it.

Reaping Mauler is a natural choice. No one grapples quite as well as they do. I was thinking taking a level or two in Soul Eater as I was going to work, actually. Illithid Savant is a must. The trick now, of course, is deciding what class to use to get to at least some of those PrCs, and building it around the Half-Illithid's level adjustment (+5).

[JosephBlackly]

I finished the half-illithid. It's obviously not as powerful as it could be. I know that. But you know what? I don't care. It's the premise that I was going for, and to that end I think I succeeded. I'll post the others on the wiki at a later date, once they're done (click the "my contributions" link on my sig for my wiki page).

In the meantime, I'd like to see how you guys would do this build. You guys are just so good at it.

Terror Knight
One of my favorite classes from Tactics Ogre. The idea is to make a Charisma warrior with as many non-magical fear abilities and feats as absolutely possible: Frightful Presence (Draconomicon), Kiai Shout/Greater Kiai Shout (Complete Warrior), Intimidating Rage (Complete Warrior)... Anything you can think of. Charisma for this build must be a bare minimum of 15 because of feat prereqs. I'm thinking Fighter, Knight, Samurai, and/or Barbarian for this build, leading up to either Menacing Brute (if a half-orc) or Exotic Weapon Master... Or some such.