[Iaijutsu Master]

One of my players, as a Assassin (DMG prestige Class), and he don't see much future for his PC, ok....he not have some experience , but anywise, some times I understand it…
a fighter, in some aspects are much more Assassin than he…I try encourage if some role-play opportunities … a Assasin are better than killkillkill Pc....

I like the Rogue class, and the Assassin too, but I think this: If you want a play if this classes you must be prove useful, a D&D campaign is not for fighters and wizards only…In a group, if a good background, all classes have some importance…but some players don’t understand it (at the beginning are most common) , but I as a D.master in a Lanhouse (my players pay to play)…this is a difficult situation…

When I encorage more classes than Ftrs and Wzrds, some players will be disapointed...

PS: sorry by my English...

[dragonhand777]

Keep encouraging you players to play different classes. Learning to work together is part of role-playing as well as roll playing.

Its up to you (the DM) to provide the pc with a reason to go adventuring, and keep the players interested.

[Hida Gabriel]

I have to say your english is alot better than you give yourself credit for...this is not an easy language to learn.

I like fighters to start with. Play a fighter up to level 4 to gain a bunch of extra feats, and then multiclass over to rouge to get the rest of the skills you don't get as a fighter. From there you can multi-class, or prestege class to anything you want. This will give you a well rounded character that can go in any direction you want. It might take awhile to build up, but in the end it will be worth it as you will have a character that can do nearly anything you want.

Gabriel

[Darius]

dragonhand777, on Apr 18 2004, 02:32 AM, said:

Keep encouraging you players to play different classes. Learning to work together is part of role-playing as well as roll playing.

Its up to you (the DM) to provide the pc with a reason to go adventuring, and keep the players interested.

I agree , The Rogue is one of those must have classes in a well balanced party (Fighter , Wizard , Cleric , Rogue) , The one time you dont have a thief in the party is guaranteed to be the time you really need one
the rogue is invaluable for getting into places your not supposed to and doing it quietly , not just for picking lock but hideing in shadows and moveing silently to scout ahead to see whats around the corner etc.
The backstab ability is pretty useful as well , a good example is the current campaign im running , the PC's got jumped by a Young blue Dragon in the courtyard of a building they were trying to enter(Return to TOEE , the moathouse) , the Pc's won the intiative but they were in trouble , the fighter had done some damage , the Fighter/mage a heap more , the Cleric had done some but it didnt look like they could take it down without someone dying , when the Thief got her turn , she had ended up behind the dragon in the suprise round and it was between her and the party. she took her shot ,scored a critical and got a backstab as well , 40 hp later you saw her standing on top of the corpse of the dragon - The fighter had only managed to cause 20 points of damage
Encourage your players to use the thief more for scouting , spying etc

D

[Doomdreamer]

The rogue in my opinion is one of the two most powerful classes in D&D right up there with clerics, and here is why.

Rogues get this nasty Sneak attack thing. If you have a rogue who carries around a wand of ray of frost, sure the wand does a d3 damage, but its a touch attack and well, ALL of the sneak attack damage. Say a 5th level rogue stacks up 3d6 damage with a TOUCH attack. Any level that tends to be scary. Rogues also have a massive amount of skills to use to do things other PCs can not. Also, feats like opportunist and combat reflexes let Rogues needle down their foes until they die. Hell, an Assassin gets poison use. Sometimes Con damage is far more potent. Also, with poisons, they ALWAYS have to make the second save. An Assassin can just wait a minute and their foe could fall unconcious or worse. NEVER discount a rogue, or an assassin for that matter. Plus, the invisibility and obscurement spells assassins have available make sure the sneak attack ability is used.

Clerics have sooooooo many good spells available to them. They can blast foes with spells like searing light and flames strike, plus, with 3-4 good boosting spells, become a better warrior than most fighters of an equal level. And, if a fight looks dangerous, they could use etheralness, a ghost touch gauntlet, and use inflict spells from the ethereal plane, or just use it to heal the party and boost themselves back to power.

There are many ways Clerics and Rogues can outshine a fighter or wizard. You just got to be creative. Encourage your players to find them. Happy Gamming.

[Iaijutsu Master]

I agree, but the beginner players must see this points...

In a some aspects the cleric is are more useful than arcane spell caster, and better too (some times), a rogue can be resolve a lot of problems unlike a fighter…

Thanks for all…

[LicheHazel]

Well first of all I play 3.5 with all my players presient in the room, but I should not see a LAN game being any different. The First thing I ask is :
DM: Are you new to this or have you played before, then if they have played before get a little bit of an understanding before the session starts.

This stops a lot of confusion over rules and the likes. If someone is going to play a prestege from nothing, thats a little quircy I would want some background too.

Secondly try to include them as quickly as possible. I would advise some plot for him to use as a background for a progression to either another class or to give him a real chance to sink his teath into plot

Martin
AKA LicheHazel

*All references to he are not sexist its just she is longer to type

[Iaijutsu Master]

I open this discussion at the beginning of all groups, it is resolve in some cases...

Tanks Hazel...

[Daniel_Collins]

Well, there truly isnt a "best" character. If I were to fight a, lets say, barbarian with a wizard, id get annialated(spelling?) but if i were to fight a barbarian with a fighter, i could and probably would win, if the match up was fair. On the other hand, if i were to try to understand magic with that same fighter, it just wouldnt happen. with that wizard, though, it wouldnt take but a die rolls' time. Now, i can work with ftr, rog, mnk, and sor. so i pretty much know what there is to know about the adv/disadv of the classes. I prefer to be a player of DM, and my personal favorite is rogue, because, as stated earlier, the are exceptionally well rounded. The definitely have the adv over fighters if you get weapon finesse, which to me, is the most important so i dont have to focus on my strength much. So, when you look at the facts, most people would probably rather be a rogue over a fighter, since they are equal in combat and the rogue has better out of combat skills.

[blacxthornE]

I agree that you should encourage beginners as a DM. I am doing this for a week, and probably will for two more... Here's what you could do:

Tell them about the most important points of each class, for example;
* Sneak attack ability and a Weapon Finesse feat will probably descend the need for STR greatly in any rogue, so it can focus on DEX or CHA, and INT.

* A rogue with high DEX would have very few obstacles in her way. Opening locks, detecting and disarming traps (even getting past them without disarming), sabotaging, fighting (high DEX with weapon finesse and sneak attack is deadly)...

* A rogue with high CHA would also be very successful in another way. It could persuade, bluff, intimidate people and get extra help from NPCs for her team.

You should also place obstacles that need special class abilities. For example, if you place a deadly trap with a high DC would show them the importance of a rogue...

[dragonhand777]

Quote

...rogue over a fighter, since they are equal in combat and the rogue has better out of combat skills.

While the rogue is one of my favorit classes, I disagree that a fighter would be equal to a rogue (of equal level) in one on one combat. If you build your fighter right, they can do some considerable damage in combat.

Not to mention, if you wanted, you could play a very dexterious fighter. Not all fighters are big and slow.

Also there's the Paladin. There was a friend in our group that played them constantly (they were his fav.), none in our group could ever equal the amount of damage he'd inflict upon our foes (rogue or otherwise) His attack and damage were outrageous, I'm sure this had to be a combinatiuon of class features as well as feats.

[blacxthornE]

That's what's beautiful about DnD. Your character is only limited by you.

[Iaijutsu Master]

...Oh yeah!!! Rogues rules, I agree, and I never say it: Fighters are a mountain of muscles if no brain, ok, sometimes they are , but this type of fighter not survive much time (in my conception)...

A good Dm, must be encourage our players to be rogues, bards, and cia, given to all opportunities to enjoy.

[LicheHazel]

Rogue <> Fighter. No way, a rogue is by essence fleet of foot, and ahead of the game. Its one that I encourage people to use properly Yet many PC's can't even remember the basic rules for Coup de gras, let alone sneak attack. There was recently on the WOTC boards a thread on Coup de gras that went on forever. Its in the PHB, or is it some semantic that most others have mist ??

Martin