[Deimodius]

I'm having a problem with xp in my campaign! I have a group of 7 players, 4 of whom have DMed at one time or another, and everyone has differing ideas about how xp should be awarded. I think the biggest problem has been xp for dfeating foes.

I have always been a fan of awarding xp for defeating foes based on participation in the combat. If you didn't do something, you shouldn't get xp. In fact, at one time I actually awarded xp based on a formula that divided the xp for a monster killed based on the amount of damage done by each person.

Some of my players feel that anyone prsent at a fight should share in the xp, even if ythey did nothing. Their favourite example is a fighter and a mage meet a monster. The fighter wins initiative and gets to go first, and scores a good hit, killing the monster instantly. This, they believe, is unfair to the mage if he receives no xp.

I see it this way, if the mage had gone first, and cast a spell that helped in some way, like hold person, or strength on the warrior, then he is entitled to xp even though he didn't actually kill the monster, but if he didn't do _anything_ then why should he be rewrded.

My reason for feeling this way seems quite simple to me. If a character decides durng a battle to skulk off into the shadows and watch, should he receive xp? I don't think so. Does a character who stays in the fray, but doesn't get to kill anything (or otherwise participate) receive xp? If he does, why? Is it a matter of proximity?

Anyway, I was hoping perhaps some of you could help with your own DMing experience. No pun intended.

Deimodius

[ladyofdragons]

well, I don't know if I completely share your logic, but I do see your point. I think of it this way: anyone who participates in the battle deserves some credit. there are many ways to participate in a battle aside from damage, such as bless spells, bardic abilites, walls of fog and the like. Nobody who participates in the battle should be shunned, they did their part to overcome the foe, which is the important part. If you're in another room or skulking in the corner because you're a first level mage with no spells left, then I can see saying you don't deserve a part of the action.

We reward total xp for creature killed as a solo kill to the person who killed it. We've tried things like splitting xp for a creature killed between characters who were involved in the battle. Never gone so far as to put it down to HP of damage each one did, I think that's a little out of bounds. everyone does their part, if you niggle too much on HP of damage done, then everyone will feel like the only worthwhile character to play is some juggernaut fighter. A good party is made up of many skills besides fighting, make sure that those characters don't get snubbed in the XP department, seeing as creature kill XP is usually a large part of XP given for an adventure.

[Deimodius]

Lady of Dragons,

I don't disagree that there are ways to participate in a combat encounter other than hacking and slashing, but what about a PC who goes last in a round because of a poor initiative roll, and does not get to do anything before the opponents are dispatched.

My players feel it would be unfair for that PC to receive no XP just because the opponent was dealt with _before_ his/her turn.

Thanks,
Deimodius

[Rintaran]

Well, Deimodius, I run things a little differently when it comes to giving out xp. First off, killing things is a way of advancing, but it is by far not the only way, and shouldn't make up the bulk of the xp your PCs get. If the monster was killed in one shot, before any of the other characters got a chance to do anything, don't bother awarding experience because the ecounter was far below what the PCs need at that point. Another good idea is to not let the PCs know what their xp is at, keep it hidden on a piece of DM scratch paper.

I give most of my PCs experience for either meeting or defeating storyline goals, and acting. I say meeting or defeating storyline goals because the two are both very different, and very interesting. By defeating storyline goals, I mean the PCs have found a way to be unable to get an important piece of info, which leads them on the wrong track and a completely different path for the campaign unfolds.

Just let them know when to level up, don't confuse them with complex mathematical calcualtions over who gets how much xp for dealing so much damage to such and such a creature.

[marcus_oredius]

Quote

Well, Deimodius, I run things a little differently when it comes to giving out xp.  First off, killing things is a way of advancing, but it is by far not the only way, and shouldn't make up the bulk of the xp your PCs get.  If the monster was killed in one shot, before any of the other characters got a chance to do anything, don't bother awarding experience because the ecounter was far below what the PCs need at that point.  Another good idea is to not let the PCs know what their xp is at, keep it hidden on a piece of DM scratch paper.

I give most of my PCs experience for either meeting or defeating storyline goals, and acting.  I say meeting or defeating storyline goals because the two are both very different, and very interesting.  By defeating storyline goals, I mean the PCs have found a way to be unable to get an important piece of info, which leads them on the wrong track and a completely different path for the campaign unfolds.

Just let them know when to level up, don't confuse them with complex mathematical calcualtions over who gets how much xp for dealing so much damage to such and such a creature.

[marcus_oredius]

I agree with Rintaran and do use the same method. I think as a DM or GM you are responsible for the distribution of the Xps its up to you how it should be distributed who should be given or the other way.

I only tell my players that he or she feels his or her inner soul has strengthn they understand it as a time to level up

and appology: My english is not perfect because I live in TURKEY if I made a mistake dont hesitate to show it to me I may not like to be corrected but will appreciate it

[Khan]

I too concur with Rintaran. Although I haven't yet had the pleasure of sitting in the DM's chair, I do think of myself as being able to give advice (for I know if I like what a DM decides for our group)

When I DM my first adventure which may be quite soon, I will be awarding most XP to good roleplayers, who don't just go in with swords drawn and bows raised etc. Diplomatic characters who act get more XP, dramatic scenes will result in XP given out to all PCs involved in the Drama and if the roleplaying is superb, I'll consider giving out feats too (it will have to go with whats happening though).

It depends on what kind of adventure you want. Hack 'n' Slash will mean that you give out XP to those who kill more creatures. heavy Roleplaying will mean that you may give less XP to those who roll the dice and kill monster and more to those who act in character and come up with ideas & plans to get around problems.

[infinity]

I don't nessecarily feel the same way (heh not being a DM)... I think the players should know how much exp they should have. Although it does make things more tricky, it gives them a chance to realize how important something they did was.

A fighter who instantly kills his enemy should get exp, but so should the mage, and rogue accompanying him/her. I believe that the whole group should recieve exp, and then be split at the end of an adventure. If someone is hiding in a shadow, then so be it. You could take that into consideration. And if a character is pulling much more then his/her own weight in a group, then they should get a bonus. The poor spell caster who runs out of spells saving their group shouldnt be penalized because they can't contribute later. If we had been playing by whoever kills it, gets exp, most of the group I play in wouldn't be past level 5.

You need to understand that the group, is a group, and that everyone in it should recieve some reward for doing there part.

[Cuilean]

Here's my method of combat XP, which differs slightly from the method Lady Of Dragons uses:
1) Anyone who takes an active part in a combat receives an even share of XP. I also give the benefit of the doubt to those who may not have the opportunity to act: for example, those who get hit by a Hold Person before their action, and the rest of the party finishes the combat beforehand. People who don't take an active part *by choice* don't get a share of the XP from that combat.
2) A character who takes on a challenging enemy (one whose CR is equivalent or greater than the character's CR) single-handedly (no assistance whatsoever from their friends), gets a bonus amount of XP for defeating that opponent. Note that this prevents a "Cleaver" from going through six goblins for six "solo kills".
3) Characters who persist in not taking part in combat (even in a supportive role, such as healing the wounded, etc.) will find that they progress through levels slower than their comrades; if they don't have a good reason for this behavior, they may encounter grues.

That being said...usually only about half of the XP I award on an adventure is from combat. The rest of it is from role-playing and goals.

A problem with dividing XP by damage is that not every creature has to be dealt damage to be defeated.

A problem with pure-XP solo kills is that it puts comrades in jeopardy... Put it in this light: You help your comrade. He/she turns around and moans at you about stealing their solo kill. So, you don't help out next time... this time, they've bitten off more than they can chew, and they get killed. The same person may then ask "Why didn't you help me?"

Unless there's a valid role-playing reason *not* to help out... such as an honor duel vs. that character's sworn enemy, etc.. I'm going to help to make sure my *friend* survives.

[Cuilean]

Oh, that being said... I tell players their XP, but keep a log to rectify disagreements about "popping."

[Shadow_Wolf]

to use the example stated earlier if a fighter and a mage encounter a monster and the fighter get initive thus killing the monster before the wizard can go. How do you know that the mage's presence was not a factor? could the monster have gone after the mage thus exposing a weakness for the fighter to exploit? Could a foe have caught a glimpse of something in the shadows distracting it for the briefest second, allowing it's combatant the perfect strike? Combat is chaos and everything has an effect on the outcome. We just don't always see it.
Hope some of this helps.

[scot]

First off it should be noted that as the DM it is your decision on how XP should be handed out. I realize that most of us play in groups where all get a say in matters and/or have GM'd, but the final decision goes to individual that's running the game.

Second, I typically keep the XP totals from the players and notify them when they level up. The campaign that I'm about to start I plan on letting the players know in private to keep from having the "how come they leveled up and I didn't" discussion.

As to the acutally XP award if a player rolls initiative, their PC will get an equal share of the XP for the combat. The noted exception is that they turn tail and run if they can contribute - cowards should never be rewarded. I also make it a point to provide XP bonuses for non-combat contributions such as character journals, letters written by the character, etc. - typically no more that 15% of the total needed for the next level.

[Cuilean]

Playing the devil's advocate, here..

1) What if the player is under a spell or spell-like effect, such as Command or Fear (or a vampire's crushing will)? Do they get experience for the role-playing equivalent to the combat?
2) What if the character is facing a phobia? They, too, would probably run, instead of fighting.
3) What if the character refuses to assist on moral grounds? Say, a priest of a god of peace, and therefore refuses to partake in any sort of battle? Or, a paladin who hasn't enough evidence to prove that evil has occurred?

How would each of you handle these?

[donaghey]

times cr by 75 and that is awarded to every one alive equally this is the correct way to award xp
>donaghey

[Rintaran]

Quote

times cr by 75 and that is awarded to every one alive equally this is the correct way to award xp
>donaghey

Really? That's the only correct way is it?