[Celarnor]

I haven't had a chance to get the new edition materials yet, and before I do, I was wondering what the differnces were. If there isn't a major difference, I'm not going to convert the campaign I'm running into 3.5.

[ladyofdragons]

The book text has been edited in the PHB and DMG in general, things which were unclear the first time around have been explained much more thoroughly. The Ranger and Monk classes have been revamped and balanced. Several of the spells have been updated. I believe grappling or something has been changed as far as combat rules. (I actually haven't converted over yet, I believe our group has set january or so to do it, after we've all got a copy of the new PHB.)

Other than that, it's actually possible to intermingle 3.0 and 3.5 characters in a campaign. I suggest reading the WotC 3.5 update guide or even better Olgar Shiverstone's 3.5 revisions, they outline the major changes between the two editions.

[Celarnor]

Hm...I have decided to update the spells and the rules regarding them, but I am not giong to change anything else, there really isn't enough of them to warrant significant change.

[dragonhand777]

The objective of this topic is to give 3.0 users an awareness of the changes from 3.5 to 3.0 in the Core Rule Books. Hopefully this will make the incorperation of current or future supplements easier.

Some people are or may be under the impression that the release of 3.5 made 3.0 obselete, this is not the case, and 3.5 supplements are compatible with 3.0. Some of the changes may be considered good, some not. However, it is not my wish to debate which is which.

Given the size of this task, I will start by listing the subject that has had changes made to it and some of the changes. If you desire to see the details, post your question/request for more info. and I or some one else will respond with the details. In some cases the changes were small, so I'll list them next to the subject (for instance, the only change to the Fighter Class was Intimidate as a class skill). In other cases where a new class ability, or a new skill etc. is introduced, I'll list it as a subject and define it.

Core Rule Book I: PHB

Weapon Familiarity: Dwarven waraxes and dwarven urgoshes are martial weapons for Dwarfs, they do not need to take the exotic weapon proficiency feat. Gnomes treat the gnomed hooked hammer as a martial weapon, (again) the exotic weapon prof. feat is not required.

Gnomes: Their favored class is now the Bard. However, all of their abilities are the same as in 3.0 (plus the weapon familiarity).

Barbarian: Damage reduction starts at 7th level, trap sense
+1 (see below) at 3rd level replaces the 'uncanny dodge +1' etc. Barbarians automaticly gain literacy if they gain levels in any other class, other wise they still have to spend the 2 skill points. Survival skill (see below) takes place of wilderness lore.

Bard: Inspire courage +1 @ 1st-7th levels, +2 @ 8th-13th etc. Inspire heroics @ 15th. Suggestion @ 6th, Mass suggestion at 18th.

Cleric: Knowledge history, and knowledge planes were added as class skills. No other changes.

Druid: Nature sense now only gives a +2 to Knowledge nature and Survival skill checks. Wild Emapthy (see below) @ 1st level (this replaces the skill Animal Empathy, wich does not exsist in 3.5). Wild shape @ 18th level (6/day, elemental 2/day). The druids animal companion: 1st-2nd 1 bonus trick, Link, share spells. 3rd-5th Evasion. 9th-11th Devotion...

Fighter: Intimidate as a class skill. No other changes.

Monk:Bonus feat; @ 1st level (Improved Grapple or Stunning Fist), @2nd level (Combat Reflexes or Deflect Arrows), @ 6th level (Improved Disarm or Improved Trip). Evasion @ 2nd. Slow fall any distance @ 20th...

Paladin: Knowledgw (nobility and royalty), Aura of good at 1st level. Smite Evil 1/day at 1st level. Divine Grace at 2nd. Turn Undead at 4th. Smit Evil 2/day at 5th. Secial mount recieves Improved Speed at 8th...

Ranger: Wild Empathy at 1st level. No longer automatic Two-weapon and Ambidexterity feats (the Ambidexterity feat does not exsist in 3.5). Combat Style @ 2nd level (must decide which of two styles: two-weapon or archery, this dictates which feats are gained at levels 2, 6, and 11), Improved Combat style @ 6th, Combat style Mastery @ 11th. Endurance (feat) @ 3rd. Swift Traker @ 8th (this allows tracking at his/her base speed w/o penalty). Evasion @ 9th. Hide In Pain Sight @ 17th...

Rogue: Slight of Hand (replaces pick pockets, see below). Trapfinding at 1at level. Trap sense +1 at 3rd. Uncanny Dodge at 4th level. Improved Uncanny dodge at 8th. Trap Sense +2 at 6th level...

Sorcerer: See link in next post.

Wizard: See link in next post.

Trap Sense is a sixth sense that alerts him/her of danger fron traps providing a +1 bonus on Reflex savs to avoid, and a +1 dodge bonus to AC against attacks made by traps. For both barbarians and rogues, this ability begins at 3rd level and increases by +1 at every three levels after. The effects of trap sense stack when multiclassing. This is an ability for Barbarians and rogues only.

Wild Empathy allows a druid or ranger the ability to use body language, vocalization and demeanor to improve the attitude of an animal (like a bear or monitor lizard). This is similar to a diplomacy check. The druid or ranger rolls 1d20 + class level + cha. mod. The ranger or druid and the animal must be able to study each other, which means they are w/ in 30' of each other under normal conditions. This usualy takes 1 min. but may take more or less time. A druid or ranger can also use this ability to influence a magical beast w/ an int. of 1 or 2, but takes a -4 penalty on the check.

Survival is a 3.5 skill that takes the place of wilderness lore, but is essentialy the same.

Sleight of Hand is a 3.5 skill that is the equivilant to Pick Pockets. However it also has other uses such as entertaining a audiance as though you were using the Performance Skill. In such a case, it means your "act" would be legerdemain, juggling 'and the like.' Also, if you have 5 or more ranks in Bluff, you get a +2 synergy bonus.

Again, this is only a summary of some changes. For more detailed information, "ask and ye shall recieve."

These are by no means the only changes. But this is a start. I will post more when I can, and try to maintain the direction (as though moving through the book from front to back). However, feel free to ask any questions concerning other changes you are aware of. Fellow 3.5 users, please feel free to list any thing I forgot or continue with the additional changes.

[Darklook]

I am not going to add onto your list there but I am just going to post the link I have posted in the main site a long time ago that helped me a lot before I bought the 3.5e phb and dmgs.

Complete List of Changes in 3.5e PHB & DMG

This has been compiled by the guy who created redblade. The guy went through both books page by page and listed all the changes that can affect the gameplay in neat documents that are listed near the bottom the page.

Same thing goes for the DMG.

[dragonhand777]

Cool. Very organized.

As, I mentioned in the original post for this topic, my objective was to introduce the changes (ex: Trap sense replacing the uncanny dodge +1 for barbarians and rogues) in an a tempt to help 3.0 users understand 3.5 supplements and realize the compatibility.

Now I'm wondering if I should continue. There doesn't seem to be much point.

However, I beleive there were changes made to damage reduction for monsters in the MM. (Also, in the MM) the AC touch and flatfooted values are now listed, to save you the extra work of figuring them yourself. I'll do some more investigating for any significant changes.

[Darklook]

I am interested in seeing the mm changes. I have yet to purchase that book (I have been using 3.5e phb/dmg rules with 3e Monster manual I & II & homebrew monsters). So any information you can provide on those will be helpful to me & I bet others as well.

[blacxthornE]

dragonhand777, on Jun 9 2004, 01:18 AM, said:

Cool. Very organized.

As, I mentioned in the original post for this topic, my objective was to introduce the changes (ex: Trap sense replacing the uncanny dodge +1 for barbarians and rogues) in an a tempt to help 3.0 users understand 3.5 supplements and realize the compatibility.

Now I'm wondering if I should continue. There doesn't seem to be much point.

However, I beleive there were changes made to damage reduction for monsters in the MM. (Also, in the MM) the AC touch and flatfooted values are now listed, to save you the extra work of figuring them yourself. I'll do some more investigating for any significant changes.

I think you should continue if you have comments to add. (Explaining the uses of new rules and/or how changes may or may not be applied to games, i.e. issues about compatibility)

Yes, changes were made to damage reduction in the MM according to the brief .pdf file about the updates, I downloaded it from WotC. You may enlist those changes if you like, since they're not mentioned in the given link above.

[dragonhand777]

Please bare with me. I haven't forgotten this post (of course, being a pinned topic makes it kinda hard to miss).

So far the only notable changes to damage reduction are: it's been reduced across the board. With the max for demons and devils* at 15/good (and in some cases it's [such as a succubus**] #/cold iron or good, #/silver or good).

Not sure that that vague info. helps, but I will elaborate, and go through the monsters when I have more time. I will also provide the information in a more organized fashion.

I'm sorry if I've added to anyones confushion.


*pit fiends have 15/good and silver, most other demons and devils are either 10 or 5.
** a succubus has 10/cold iron or good

[dragonhand777]

Actually, I just found a link.

Are these the same files you have, blacxthornE?

http://wizards.com/d...d/dnd/20030718a

[blacxthornE]

Yep.

(sorry for this almost empty post, i hate it but it was necessary. i will try to edit this when i have something to post here)

[Shadowborn]

Darklook, on Jun 9 2004, 12:21 AM, said:

I am interested in seeing the mm changes. I have yet to purchase that book (I have been using 3.5e phb/dmg rules with 3e Monster manual I & II  & homebrew monsters). So any information you can provide on those will be helpful to me & I bet others as well.

One of the major changes in the 3.5 MM is the damage reduction system. Rather than being a 'step-up' system (magic is better than silver, +2 is better than +1, etc.) the system has different DR for different creatures.

For example, most lycanthropes have a DR of 5/silver. Unless the weapon is silver, the DR is applied. So even if you're using a +5 battleaxe, you'll still be doing 5 less points of damage than you would be normally.

Some creatures, such as fiends, liches, and others, have multiple DR. For example, the DR for a lich is listed as "magic and bludgeoning". So unless a weapon is both, the DR applies.

Golems have a DR of X/adamantine, so only weapons made of adamantine do full damage.

[abc]

o thx i needed those things

[Axel]

I just finished spending over two hours trying to convert that site to an easier to use doc format. To no avail. Unfortunately the strikethroughs didn't complete and I lack the knowledge of Word use to make a master document as I'd hoped to do.
Anyone who wants my meager progress is welcom to it.

[Kilgore]

Another large area that recieved attention was spells. For instance, disintigrate, while still powerful, is not so overly munchkinized that it does more damage as a 6th level spell (admittedly to one target) than a meteor swarm.
The terribly useful spell symbol was broken down into a series of spells of various levels.
Another quick note, and perhaps one of the best revisions was spell DC's. They halved the DC bonus from spell focus and greater spell focus. They also changed spell power so that it no longer granted a bonus to spell DC's (Our party was once mowed down by a 12th level Red Wizard evoker whose spell DC for chain lightning was 28) Under the 3.5 revision, his DC would have been 22 instead. Still nasty, but much more survivable.