[CMB]

Hey everyone, this is a class i thought up a little while ago. I tried my best to balance as well as i could it is not all done yet. And if it seems to be a little random in parts i would like to apologize for that. Anyways here we go

Level   BAB	Fort	  Ref	Will	Special Notes
1		 +0		 +0	  +0	+2	Will of The Element
2		 +1		 +0	  +0	+3
3		 +1		 +1		 +1	+3
4		 +2		 +1	  +1	+4
5		 +2		 +1	  +1	+4	Will of Minor Physics
6		 +3	  +2	  +2	+5
7		 +3		 +2	  +2	+5
8		 +4	  +2	  +2	+6
9		 +4		 +3	  +3	+6	Will of the Land
10	   +5		 +3	  +3	+7	2nd Element
11	   +5		 +3	  +3	+7
12   +6/+1		 +4	  +4		  +8
13   +6/+1		 +4	  +4	+8	Will of the Undead
14   +7/+2		 +4	  +4	+9
15   +7/+2		 +5	  +5	+9
16   +8/+3		 +5		 +5	+10	Will of the Living
17   +8/+3		 +5	  +5	+10
18   +9/+4		 +6	  +6	+11
19   +9/+4		 +6	  +6	+11
20   +10/+5	+6	  +6	+12	Will of the Universe; 3rd Element

Class Skills:
Concentartion (Con), Listen (Wis), Spot (Wis), Search (Int), Scry (Int), Knowledge (Arcana) (Int)
Skill Points 4+Int. Mod. (4xInt. Mod at 1st. Level)

Hit Die: d4

Abilities: Wisdom governs how powerful a world shaper's will magick is and how much he can do daily. A World Shaper's Abilities(spells) are always spell-like. A high dexterity is not as important as World Shapers usually wear light to medium armor. As they have no Somatic Components in any of their abilities.

Weapon and Armor Profeciency: World Shapers are profecient with all simple weapons and light and medium armor.

Abilities(Spells): World Shapers cast special spells. What they cast in reality are not spells at all but they are will energy that the world shaper uses and molds it to what they want. Thus everything the world shaper casts is treated as Spell-Like. Instead of Spells a Day the World Shaper uses Will Points. They are points that a World Shaper uses to cast one of their abilities. They have 2 + Class Level + Wisdom Modifier will points to spend daily. You can use Will points to cast your abilities whenever you wish to aslong as you have the amount of will points needed. The Save DC for a World Shaper's Ability is 10 + Class Level + Wisdom Modifier. Every Midnight A world Shaper's Will points replenish fully for that day.

Special Notes Stuff From the chart above:

Will of the Element: A World Shaper chooses one and only one element that they are most profecient with. The elements that they may choose are Fire, Water, Wind, Earth, Electric, Light, and Dark. At level 10 a World shaper has the chance to learn another Element. But they must find a World Shaper that has the element that they wish to learn. If a world shaper cannot find someone that has the element that they want; they can easily learn it at another time as the chance never fades away. Every 10 levels after that the World Shaper has another chance to learn another Element.

Will of Minor Physics: After training and honing your skills a little bit more. Your mind has become stronger and it can alter small physical things in the world around you in a small distance/radius. For instance you can change the gravity or speed up or slow down time in a small area.

Will of The Land: After Months and months of more training your will has reached a new form of enlightenment. You see your world very differently now. You can now use your mind to shape the world. You can create hills and bring even the largest mounntains crumbling down. You can even speak to nature itself.

Will of the Undead: Spending years of conditioning your mind. Your will has changed drastically. For a few days you can hear whispers comnig from nowhere. Your dreams are terrifying filled to the brim with undead creatures. Soon enough you have noticed that you have gained some new abilities. It would seem that you can Turn the Undead away from you, and even raise the dead from the grave.

Will of The Living: You feel it, your so close to your final enlightenment. This is just the calm before the storm. You seem to be able to speak to the living creatures around you. You can also control some of them.

Will of The Universe: This is it. You know this is your final enlightenment. Your mind is more powerful than any Wizards or Sorcerer. The Forces of Gravity and Time are yours to play with. The planets are just tinker toys for you. The universe is your playground as you call upon Cosmic Storms to rain down onto your enemies.

Now thats it for now; i do not have the spell lists completed yet. I would love to hear from you guys about this class. Also i will post up the spell lists when i am finished with them.

[Dthclaw]

Biggest suggestion (only, actually): You need specific mechanics. You need to clearly state what abilities do in game terms, how often they can be used, how large an area, what it affects in types, save DCs, the whole nine yards. Without listed mechanics, this is (and please do not take this as an insult) a vague and ultimately useless class.

[Rintaran]

I agree with Dth. You're going to have to nail down the mechanical terms of those abilities. You're also going to have to rethink it a little bit, at 20th level, it should be balances with other 20th level characters, meaning that its powers cannot be greater than "any Wizards or Sorcerer". From the way I see it, depending on the mechanics, this could either be a really overpowered class, or a really underpowered class. Getting this one balanced is likely going to be difficult.

Additionally, you should nail out the "fluff" of the class. I get that this class is supposed to allow the character to shape the world around them, but when you think of it, every class can shape the world around them to some degree. What makes this class different, how does it react to other classes and how to they react to a world shaper?

You're also going to have to nail down what "spells" they have, and how many will points they cost.

An important thing to remember is that when someone holds up the world shaper, and another class, they should have a hard time choosing between the two. If immediately someone wants the world shaper, chances are that you're made them too powerful.

[CMB]

alrighty then thanx for the feedback guess im gonna have t ospend some time fixing it up

[super sorcerer]

I would make the DC 10+1/2class level+wisdom modifier
I have a suggesgion about how the fire element could be:
inflicting 1d4 point of fire damage per caster level (reflex for half) should cost 1 will point
inflicting 1d6 point of fire damage per caster level (reflex for half) should cost 3 will point
I have suggestion for more modifiers:
range:
touch:+0
ray(within medium range):+0
target(within medium range):+0
10 feet sphere(within medium range):+1
20 feet sphere(within medium range):+2
30 feet sphere(within medium range):+3
40 feet sphere(within medium range):+4
25 feet cone:+1
50 feet cone:+2
75 feet cone:+3
100 feet cone:+4
50 feet line:+1
100 feet line:+2
150 feet line:+3
200 feet line:+4
touch(no save):+1
ray(within medium range,no save):+1
target(within medium range,no save):+1
10 feet sphere(within medium range,no save):+4
20 feet sphere(within medium range,no save):+5
30 feet sphere(within medium range,no save):+6
40 feet sphere(within medium range,no save):+7
25 feet cone(no save):+4
50 feet cone(no save):+5
75 feet cone(no save):+6
100 feet cone(no save):+7
50 feet line(no save):+4
100 feet line(no save):+5
150 feet line(no save):+6
200 feet line(no save):+7


That settle with fire more or less (these are only the most common shapes thpugh other shapes should be avalible too)

The electric energy could be similar to fire

Water could be something like:
creating 5 liter of water per level may cost 1 will point
inflicting 1d4 cold damage per level (fortritude save fot half) may cost 2 will points
inflicting 1d6 cold damage per level (fortritude save fot half) may cost 4 will points
range modifiers:
same as fire but save change for a reflex save instead of fortitude saves for cones and spheres.

now for elemental summoning:
duration: 4 rounds per will point expended
type :fire (for fire element), air (for wind element), water (for water element), earth (for earth element)
caster level elemental
1-4 small
5-8 medium
9-12 large
13-16 huge
17-20 greater
21+ elder
for each 3 extra will points you may summon an elemental as a caster level 4 level higher.

I hope you like my idea. I thought that is what you mean the world shaper could do. If anyone think this is overpowerfull/underpowerfull please state so and please explain why. It is a realy cool idea CMB

[Jimp]

Quote

Will of Minor Physics: After training and honing your skills a little bit more. Your mind has become stronger and it can alter small physical things in the world around you in a small distance/radius. For instance you can change the gravity or speed up or slow down time in a small area.

I don't think gravity or the flow of time would be considered minor physical alterations O_O
You need to give specific mechanics for this kind of thing, otherwise they will be abused to no ends. Will of Minor Physics and Will of the Universe are WAY too powerful as you have written them above.

[CMB]

Jimp, on Jul 2 2006, 09:03 AM, said:

I don't think gravity or the flow of time would be considered minor physical alterations O_O
You need to give specific mechanics for this kind of thing, otherwise they will be abused to no ends. Will of Minor Physics and Will of the Universe are WAY too powerful as you have written them above.

The Minor Physics you only can change gravity on a single target like a harpy and slow down time in about a 50ft. sphere. That's what i was getting at. I understand the Will of the Universe thing sounds very overpowered but i have yet to finish my spell lists for this class and when i do i will post them but just to help you all here is an example spell of what the World Shaper can do.

Flare [Fire]
Will Points Used: 1/2
Casting Time: 1 Action (it takes time to concentrate to cast their abilities)
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Traget: 1 creature
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Fort. (partial) see text
Flare Does 2d4 damage and causes the target to burn for 1d4 damage for 3 rounds unless htey make their fortitude save.

There you guys go and plz contiune to post about this class i enjoy reading yuor guy's critique's and improving this class

super sorcerer, on Jul 2 2006, 07:45 AM, said:

I would make the DC 10+1/2class level+wisdom modifier
I have a suggesgion about how the fire element could be:
inflicting 1d4 point of fire damage per caster level (reflex for half) should cost 1 will point
inflicting 1d6 point of fire damage per caster level (reflex for half) should cost 3 will point
I have suggestion for more modifiers:
range:
touch:+0
ray(within medium range):+0
target(within medium range):+0
10 feet sphere(within medium range):+1
20 feet sphere(within medium range):+2
30 feet sphere(within medium range):+3
40 feet sphere(within medium range):+4
25 feet cone:+1
50 feet cone:+2
75 feet cone:+3
100 feet cone:+4
50 feet line:+1
100 feet line:+2
150 feet line:+3
200 feet line:+4
touch(no save):+1
ray(within medium range,no save):+1
target(within medium range,no save):+1
10 feet sphere(within medium range,no save):+4
20 feet sphere(within medium range,no save):+5
30 feet sphere(within medium range,no save):+6
40 feet sphere(within medium range,no save):+7
25 feet cone(no save):+4
50 feet cone(no save):+5
75 feet cone(no save):+6
100 feet cone(no save):+7
50 feet line(no save):+4
100 feet line(no save):+5
150 feet line(no save):+6
200 feet line(no save):+7
That settle with fire more or less (these are only the most common shapes thpugh other shapes should be avalible too)

The electric energy could be similar to fire

Water could be something like:
creating 5 liter of water per level may cost 1 will point
inflicting 1d4 cold damage per level (fortritude save fot half) may cost 2 will points
inflicting 1d6 cold damage per level (fortritude save fot half) may cost 4 will points
range modifiers:
same as fire but save change for a reflex save instead of fortitude saves for cones and spheres.

now for elemental summoning:
duration: 4 rounds per will point expended
type :fire (for fire element), air (for wind element), water (for water element), earth (for earth element)
caster level elemental
1-4 small
5-8 medium
9-12 large
13-16 huge
17-20 greater
21+ elder
for each 3 extra will points you may summon an elemental as a caster level 4 level higher.

I hope you like my idea. I thought that is what you mean the world shaper could do. If anyone think this is overpowerfull/underpowerfull please state so and please explain why. It is a realy cool idea CMB

Thank you super sorcerer i will defintly think about these and most likely implement the elemental summoing idea. Thanks for saying that this is a cool idea i though the same thing when it came to me one day

[Jimp]

Quote

slow down time in about a 50ft. sphere

Again, changing the flow of time is not a minor change. It's a very drastic change. Generally, only deities on divine-morphic planes can change time traits, and only if they have a high enough DR. Even the spell Time Stop doesn't affect the flow of time. It's spell description says the castster 'speeds up so greatly that all other creatures seem frozen, though they are actually still moving at their normal speeds [Who needs e=mc(squared) ].

[Ssri-Tel-Quessir Hitokiri]

Are you really sure you want to use 1/2 pts. when dealing with these "Will points"? That might complicate things a bit more than you need to.

[CMB]

Ssri-Tel-Quessir Hitokiri, on Jul 2 2006, 07:07 PM, said:

Are you really sure you want to use 1/2 pts. when dealing with these "Will points"? That might complicate things a bit more than you need to.

i though the same thing aswell im working on trying to figure out a different system i might use super sorcerer's system

Jimp, on Jul 2 2006, 06:58 PM, said:

Again, changing the flow of time is not a minor change. It's a very drastic change. Generally, only deities on divine-morphic planes can change time traits, and only if they have a high enough DR. Even the spell Time Stop doesn't affect the flow of time. It's spell description says the castster 'speeds up so greatly that all other creatures seem frozen, though they are actually still moving at their normal speeds [Who needs e=mc(squared) ].

ehh...i might just scrap the whole idea of time stuff it would seem that it will just be easier for everybody

[Ssri-Tel-Quessir Hitokiri]

Well... To deal with the entire "Will points" issue, you could use something like the power points that psionics uses. A magic equivalent of this system could be found in Unearthed Arcana I believe.

[super sorcerer]

This is a very inspiring class. I also have some suggestion for special feats for that class:

feats:

great willpower
prerequisites: iron will, at least 2 will points.
benefit: you get +2 will points.
special: you may take this feat multiple times. it effects stack.

quickwill
prerequisites: will of the land.
benefit: you may pay 4 more will points to use a power for a free action.

power focus
prerequisites: ability to use powers of the type you choose.
benefit: choose one type of powers you can cast (fire, water, wind, electricity, light, darkness, minor physics, land, undeath, life, universe) and from now on you get +1 to the DC of all powers from that type.
special: You may take this feat multiple times. You must apply it to a different type of power each time you take this feat. The effects of this feat does not stack.

My suggestions for the darkness powers:
A sphere of darkness who last 10 minutes per caster level should cost 1 willl point for every 10 feet of radius (for example a sphere with radius of 20 feet should cost 2 will points).
To blind a creature for 1 round per caster level you must pay 1 will point.
To blind a creature for 10 minutes per caster level you must pay 2 will point.
To blind a creature permanently you must pay 3 will point.
All blinding effects allow a fortitude saving throw.
To blind all creature in an area you must pay extra will points as follows:
10 feet sphere(within medium range):+2
20 feet sphere(within medium range):+3
30 feet sphere(within medium range):+4
40 feet sphere(within medium range):+5
25 feet cone:+2
50 feet cone:+3
75 feet cone:+4
100 feet cone:+5
50 feet line:+2
100 feet line:+3
150 feet line:+4
200 feet line:+5
To use the power of darkness to dispel light effects in an area cost the number of will points used to create the light effects or the level of the spell to dispel spells such as daylight.

If light and fire are saparated in your system it will make each one of them more limited becouse fire is a source of light and focusing light could make a fire. If you are sure you want to separate fire and light them I will post my suggestion for a light system on my next post on this topic.

Before I can suggest anything with earth I need a clarification what is the power of earth and what is the power of land (will of the land sound similar to will of earth). After all earth and land are about the same thing.

[Rintaran]

super sorcerer, on Jul 4 2006, 09:47 AM, said:

Before I can suggest anything with earth I need a clarification what is the power of earth and what is the power of land (will of the land sound similar to will of earth). After all earth and land are about the same thing.

Earth and "Land" are not the same thing at all. Earth is in reference to the elemental earth. In this case, it would refer to spells & abilities with an Earthen theme (ie stoneskin, meteor storm, etc). Will of the Land encompasses a larger area, and sounds a lot like major landscaping. With will of the land, you can mould the physical body of the world to create hills, mountains, gullies, lakes, rivers, oceans, whatever (at least, that's the sound of it, which is immensely overpowered for a "base class").

Additionally, I believe CMB's "Light and Dark" element types are more in reference to Positive Energy and Negative Energy, thereby aligning it with the same elemental planar structure that 4 of the other 5 elements he has listed are a part of. This would allow for much more of a variance in spells/abilities for the Will of the Elements.

[Jimp]

Just thinking that this class sounds like one what would make use of spells like Transmute (something) to (something else), Shift (something) and (something) Shape. For example, Transmute Rock to Lava (Complete Arcane), Shift Earth (may have a different name, can't recall off-hand) and Stone Shape.
Maybe extended uses of these could work for some features that affect physical geography?

[CMB]

Rintaran, on Jul 4 2006, 01:03 PM, said:

Earth and "Land" are not the same thing at all. Earth is in reference to the elemental earth. In this case, it would refer to spells & abilities with an Earthen theme (ie stoneskin, meteor storm, etc). Will of the Land encompasses a larger area, and sounds a lot like major landscaping. With will of the land, you can mould the physical body of the world to create hills, mountains, gullies, lakes, rivers, oceans, whatever (at least, that's the sound of it, which is immensely overpowered for a "base class").

Additionally, I believe CMB's "Light and Dark" element types are more in reference to Positive Energy and Negative Energy, thereby aligning it with the same elemental planar structure that 4 of the other 5 elements he has listed are a part of. This would allow for much more of a variance in spells/abilities for the Will of the Elements.

yes that is exactly what i was thinking when i created those parts