[Oneiros]

Falling down in 3.5 sucks. You get a -4 to hit, +4 to be hit, and an AoO if you try to stand up (or crawl away.)

Take a character build or monster designed to take advantage of this, and an opposing character can be in for a lot of hurt (Google "Large" "Spiked Chain" "Improved Trip" "Combat Reflexes" for ubiquitous examples of potential abuse.)

Iron Heroes really simplifies AoO's - basically, any standard or full round action you take in a threatened area which is not a melee attack provokes an AoO. The only move action which provokes is entering a number of threatened squares more than 1/4 your speed (though normal moving through threatened squares rules would probably still suffice.) Only two basic rules to remember for AoO's. Since Standing is a Move action, it doesn't provoke.

Though some messageboard posters thought this was odd, others pointed out that this is the way standing up worked in 3.0, which I had totally fogotten.

So, does going back to that (standing up doesn't provoke) sound like a reasonable house rule? The Improved Trip feat still has multiple benefits (no AoO, +4 to Trip, free follow-up attack at +4 for prone target), but repeatedly inflicting punishment on a downed foe is minimized.

Thoughts?

[Dthclaw]

I actually prefer the 3.5 system. Not for abuse opportunities, but because it is an accurate reflection of physical conflict. Without specialized training (ie learning how to kip-up), you are incredibly vulnerable trying to pick yourself off the ground. In fact, that's how most people get beaten to death - they get knocked down, and in trying to defend themselves/get up, they just get pummelled.

Broken? Maybe from a rules perspective. Accurate? Most definitely.

[super sorcerer]

If you suffer much from that problem there is the "prone attack" feat from "complete warrior".
Myself I allow a tumble check vs DC of 15 to stand up without provoking attacks of opportunity becouse it is as if he tried to moove in a threatend area.
Trying to stand up leave you enough unprotected to provoke an attack of opportunity from a nearby creature in my opinion.

[Jimp]

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Myself I allow a tumble check vs DC of 15 to stand up without provoking attacks of opportunity becouse it is as if he tried to moove in a threatend area.

On that note, in Complete Adventuer it says that with a DC 35 Tumble check you can stand up again as a free action without provoking any attack of opportunity.

[Raven Bloodmoon]

DC 35 certainly soudns more reasonable. Falling down should suck. Falling is easily as embarrasing as getting disarmed and probably more deadly, cuz even if you et disarmed, you can still run away. I don't know, but I think the rules look good as are.

[super sorcerer]

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On that note, in Complete Adventuer it says that with a DC 35 Tumble check you can stand up again as a free action without provoking any attack of opportunity.

But usualy standing up is a moove equivalent action so I treat it as normal movment for tumble chack DC to stand up as a movment action without provoking any attack of opportunity. I give the DC 35 only if you want to quicken it to a free action.

[Dthclaw]

Under normal rules, standing up without provoking an AoO as a move action is a DC 25 Tumble, if I remember correctly.

[super sorcerer]

Dthclaw, on May 20 2006, 04:48 PM, said:

Under normal rules, standing up without provoking an AoO as a move action is a DC 25 Tumble, if I remember correctly.

Realy? I looked for it and didn't found. Thanks.
Where did you find it?

[Dthclaw]

Actually, on closer inspection, it isn't.

The only method of standing up via Tumble is a DC 35 check; and at any rate, it STILL provokes an attack of opportunity. CAdv is the only sourcebook that indicates a method of getting up with a Tumble check, and that's it.

[Greg Swifthands]

I'm confused, here, I thought as long as you took a full round action to stand up, it didn't provoke an Attack of Oppertunity in 3.5. (Mind you I myself only have 2 3.5 books... and the core 3.0 books) Or did my DM use a variant for it?

[Dthclaw]

Must have used a variant, because I can't find that in any of the rule books.

[super sorcerer]

How hard do you think it is to stand up without provoking an attack of opportunity?
Does DC 15 seems too low?
Improved trip now look as a very good feat to take and prone attack too and spiked chain sound as an even better weapon than what I thought (I thought it was valuable only becouse it's long reach)

[Oneiros]

super sorcerer, on Aug 9 2006, 08:23 AM, said:

How hard do you think it is to stand up without provoking an attack of opportunity?
Does DC 15 seems too low?

DC 15 for what? Tumble? Balance? Ref? DEX? Knowledge (Walk Upright)?

If you make this a Skill DC, that means some characters will eventually be able to do it automatically, while others will still be easy targets for Impr. Trip even at 20th level.

Edit: Never Mind. I see from a post higher up you mean Tumble. My point still stands, tho.

[Rintaran]

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How hard do you think it is to stand up without provoking an attack of opportunity?
Does DC 15 seems too low?

Yes. Yes it does. As Dthclaw pointed out earlier:

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The only method of standing up via Tumble is a DC 35 check; and at any rate, it STILL provokes an attack of opportunity

Based on that tidbit of knowledge, I'd probably have to arbitrarily set the DC at 45 or 50. Of course, armed with this knowledge, it could be possible to come up with a bunch of feats for fighting while on the ground... I know, from the many fights that I've gotten into, that an individual on the ground is still a problem, and that I'm personally, better when fighting without having to worry about gravity making me go ow. I can use all four limbs in combat simultaneously while on the ground, whereas standing up, I can use two with good effect, and a third if I'm willing to endanger myself greatly. Does anyone know of any books that have feats that would apply to fighting from your back? Perhaps that's a new topic...