[Dthclaw]

Right then...

I am wanting to keep guns more powerful than bow and crossbows in individual damage per shot but with enough reloading pain to have the lower rate of fire make up for it.

In that case, mon, the rules for muzzle-loaders (under the Sorc&Steam rules) is that it takes 2 full-round actions to reload a muzzle-loader. The guns hurt like hell, but its a choice between carrying multiple loaded guns or spending several turns reloading one.

(2 full-rounds because a realistic reload time would put people to not using guns at all, something like 6-8 full-round actions)

[Rintaran]

Raven Bloodmoon, on Apr 23 2006, 10:06 PM, said:

Yup, we both just spent a couple days padding our post counts with a heated agreement over firearms in DnD. It happens sometimes.

I was wondering how long it would take the two of you to figure that out. lol.

Back on topic,

Two full-rounds sounds decently reasonable to me. Sure you cut out a couple steps in the process to manage it, but it's not horrible like that.

Also, my personal best shot was the bullseye of a stationary target around 75 ft with a S&W Snub-nose (fairly certain it was a .32), or at moving target at around 35 ft with the same-weapon. Repeatedly doing the first at a competition in Winnepeg when I was younger managed to get me my only shooting trophy.

[dragonhand777]

Lancifer, on Apr 21 2006, 01:22 AM, said:

A couple recent threads about gun play has me questioning using low-powered guns as exotic weapons for pirates and some more technological settlements in my campaign. I sketched up three black-powder weapons that all require the same Exotic Weapon proficiency (Black-powder guns). Guns can not pass material damage reduction (i.e. silver and cold iron) to the bullets, but can pass alignment and magic damage reduction. All guns deal piercing type damage.
...

Derringer (One shot pistol)
1d8 / x3
Range: 80ft
Max Range: 5 increments (400ft)
Special: Can be dual wielded with normal two-weapon fighting penalties. Takes one standard action to reload, provokes AoO.
...

Any ideas for further balance, if needed? I am wanting to keep guns more powerful than bow and crossbows in individual damage per shot but with enough reloading pain to have the lower rate of fire make up for it.

I really suggest you look at this site. Scroll down to reload times. Two rounds isn't really a bad idea, its fairly acurate.

Also you should REALLY reconsider the stats you set up for derringers. Deringers were intended for point blank range only (hence why they were predominately carried by gamblers and whores). They lose accuracy after 15ft.

[Oneiros]

One of the problems with "realistic" reloading times is - they're no fun. Also, from a metagaming standpoint, they're pointless, unless the gun's average damage over, say, three hits can equal the damage dished out by a crossbow in the same number of rounds, it's impractical and underpowered in the long run. No one will bother using them, except perhaps for firing once, then tuck it in your belt (for a pistol), and charge in with your sword (not an unpirate-like action, tho.)

For one company's take on it, check out the firearms rules for the Iron Kingdoms setting. They went the extra mile of not only requiring standard actions to reload, but a feat per general gun type and a skill check to boot. I'm not a big fan of this system.

Monte Cook also addresses guns in the article (pdf->)Harnessing the Natural Laws: Technology in Your Game. It includes some more fantasy-style firearms, with reasonable ranges and reloading times.

With those points in mind, I'd say Lancifer's first post looks pretty good, with the possible exception of needing to lower the range increments for the derringer and pistol.

[Torap]

I play a SMALL variety of games, but i have some expirience with travler games, especialy T20, which is actualy built off of a lot of dnd basic rules.(in fact, the book says right at the begining that you need the dnd core books)
My biggest probem with this is the 400 ft range on a PISTOL. the t20 book has 45 meters(135feet+/-) as the *longest* range of *any* pistol(even laser). Even their basic rifle only a has 72m(215ft+/-) range.

Heres a t20 sample.
weapon/range m(ft)/damage(crit)
short bow/18m(55ft)/1d6(x2)
revolver/30m(90ft)/1d10(x2)
snub pistol/18m(55ft)/1d10(x2)
rifle/72m(215ft)/1d12(x2)


Remember these are MAX range, not increments.

my next problem is with reload time, i am assumming these are muzzle loaders. It takes at least 20 seconds to load a muzzle loader, I play assuming a 10 socond combat roound. so basicly it would take 2 rounds to load, 1 for the pwder and 1 for the ball

on the other had i do like the x3 crit, though i might go with a 19 crit instead. Also, i wouln't be afraid to make it 1d10 damage.
You could also alow "overloading", but I wouldn't do this unless you're doing increased weapon failure.
I would have them fail to fire on any odd number, and explode on a 1, dealing 1d4 deamage to the wielder. Overloading would use two shots of power, deal double damage, fire at -4 due to the shortend barel travel, and explode on 1-3, once again, dealing double damage. however, 2d10 is a LOT of damage to deal at low lvl.
just a thought.