[Raven Bloodmoon]

Well, I just conducted my first playtest of realistic guns and it was freakin' lethal, just the way it should be. It was between three level 1 fighters, and the feeling was pretty good. However, I am worried that at higher levels, characters would just laugh at guns, since they have so many hit points they could take a full clip in the gut and not notice. So I have a solution that will greatly affect all of gameplay, but make things far more realistic. Sorry if you hate this, but you don't have to implement it.

Wound Points = 2 x Constitution score
Mortality Points = Constitution score

Wound points act exactly like hit points, except they are called wound points so as not to confuse people. When you run out of wound points, weapons start eating away at your mortality points. As soon as you take 1 point of mortality damage, you are dying and suffer all of the normal effects, including subsequent loss of mortality points each round that you do not stabalize. When you run out of mortality points, you are dead.

Nonlethal damage works the same way as always. When you have more nonlethal damage than wound points, you pass out.

The entire point of this is that you do not randomly get more wound points for gaining levels. They are based solely off of your Constitution score, which may change over time.

[Dthclaw]

Isn't that basically the Star Wars vitality thing?

[Axel]

Apart from him basing the wounds on constitution rather than class and level, yeah it's just like the Vitality/Wounds system.

[Raven Bloodmoon]

Vitality points are little different than hit points except in that the book tells you how to interpret them. This is actually a ripoff of an old rpg called Alternity. Combat was rather gritty and dangerous, which is what it is suppose to be. Anyone else like it or have any comments on it?

[Alexis Wilke]

Raven Bloodmoon, on Apr 19 2006, 09:34 PM, said:

Anyone else like it or have any comments on it?

Yeah... who has guns in D&D?!

Alexis

[Dthclaw]

I use firearms in my campaign, alongside with magic and psionics. I haven't encountered any problems with it.

[Rintaran]

Alexis Wilke, on Apr 20 2006, 05:13 AM, said:

Yeah... who has guns in D&D?!

Alexis

Although I don't, many do. In fact, WoTC has DND books with guns in them. Look at d20 Modern, or even in the DMG. 2nd edition also had the arquebus, and I'd be very surprised if there wasn't something in first edition as well.

DND doesn't have to be a medieval fantasy role-playing game. It's just what most people prefer. Additionally, the first rockets were around during the medieval period here on Earth... only they were in China, and not quite as all-powerful and destructive. If they had thought of it, i'm sure they could have slapped together some guns for that period of time, so there's a basis for it in reality too.

Raven's approach is merely looking at using more advanced weaponry than the basic guns already provided in the core books. He's also realizing that it is a can of worms in itself. Things may seem to have changed a lot since the old days, but its really just more streamlining and rule-padding to the system. Expanding into the realms of guns is a surprisingly logical step for d20 products. All things evolve and get more complex. People are constantly working towards finding ways to do things better (when they aren't being lazy). Guns are a natural technological development in society, both fictional and real.



But back onto topic...

I like the idea behind this new hit point system. However, it is one hell of a major undertaking since you would have to redo the hp of every single creature and character that you plan to use for the game. I do notice one big huge problem with it though. Zombies and other undead don't have a consitution score, and many dragon's con scores increase slowly as they age, greatly reducing their capabilities under this system as opposed to the current HP system. I have to wonder how you plan to amend these difficulties.

[jack(tim)]

Simple... the LP (Life Points, Because MP is too just confusing) should just equal the con modifier of the creature * CR or LVL of the creature...

As far as things that aren't actually alive (in the sense they don't have a con) Either run off the stat that gives them the Mimicry of life... as a disentigration point... say if you blast a zombie for 40 LP damage and he only has 30LP (Derived from a high level... and the +3 bonus from the creature that created him (Prolly CHA mod or something like that)) then have the zombie poof...

Does that sound good?

Technically it seems to me that this is a system for deriving the complete annihilation point of a body... Not an actual system for damage... it's more like trying to break a weapon or item than it is to kill someone... bc once it goes below the normal HP range (+ to 0)... all you are doing is destroying the corpse...

[Raven Bloodmoon]

Well, with regard to the size of the undertaking, I don't mind too much since this entire project is starting to look like one heck of a doozy as it is. As for dragons, just like any other creature, they will die a lot faster than they currently do. After all, if I shoot a Maverick into its lair while its in it, there shouldn't be anything left. Period. As far as interfering with its capabilities goes, everything in the world is far more fragile with this system, which is actaully the point.

As far as undead go, I didn't think of that one. I can see where the WP fr creatures that were once alive and are now undead will be derived from the original creature, but for creatures like shadows and nightshades, I am currently stumped. Give me a little time to figure that one out.

Also, I expect a fair amount of playtesting will be required before all the monsters are restored to their original glory under this system. It should, however, be worth it all in the end.

[Raven Bloodmoon]

Okay, here's the followup to handle the cases of Undead and Constructs.

Constructs are similar to inanimate objects like vehicles and robots, so they will get an arbitrary number of wound points and be destroyed when they are reduced to 0 wound points. In fact, these may be called hit points instead since that is more descriptive of their function.

Undead are trickier and are divided up into two categories - the once living corporeal undead, and all other undead (including natural undead and incorporeal undead). Once living undead have a number of wound points equal to X * the base creature's max wound points. All other undead have a number of wound points equal to twice their Wisdom score because Wisdom seems to represent a creature's force of mind or will. An undead is destroyed or vanquished when it it reduced to 0 wound points or less.

My current thoughts about the value of X is that it should be no around 1.5, though it might vary with the type of undead produced. Don't know yet, but it could be an option.

[Alexis Wilke]

I have seen a movie in modern times with some vampires which were attacking some guys who happened to have guns (like everyone has guns just like that...)

They opened fire and the vampires pretended to be hurt and then they would just spit out the bullet (that was a joke, okay).

But they weren't affected at all, because the bullets were not in silver. I suggest you keep that same rule if it is in 3.5 too (I imagine you need a silver sword or some magical sword to hit many undead).

For ghosts... I'd suggest you enhance your weapons and get a Ghostbuster!!!

By the way, I'd make it really hard to hit a squeleton too. Notice there are many holes in between the bones.

And for dragons, I would not think that it would be easy to kill unless you aim the heart or the brain. I played Judge Dreed and they have whatever you want in there (because of crazy scientists) and thus you can meet face to face with a Dinosaure. It's really hard to kill. It's so big that you are so very unlikely to hit a sensitive part that it doesn't matter to them. So I'd keep the standard hit points and maybe multiple the damage by two or so (because bullets burn some and are somewhat annoying when in your body.)

Now, I know of Modern d20, but I didn't know that people would mix Modern with D&D... That's silliness
Poor game!

Alexis

[Dthclaw]

Now, I know of Modern d20, but I didn't know that people would mix Modern with D&D... That's silliness

Actually, its provided key historical aspects of my campaign, in addition to really opening up options. Several ancient civilizations in the past that were technologically advanced (PL 9, PL 6, and PL 4 in order of oldest to newest) serving as inspiration for the modern PL 3 (Industrial Revolution era) world. It may seem silly, but players actually seem to really like the fact that this shows a dynamic, changing world.

It still is primarily fantasy, but they can see concrete examples of the world evolving.

[Raven Bloodmoon]

The reasoning behind this is actually one of quite high fantasy, but a rather different flavor. I'll make a post on it sometime so everyone can comment and stuff....yeah.

As for damage reductions (vampires could give a rat's [CHAIR] about silver. They don't like wooden stakes aimed at their hearts. Lycanthropes have issues with silver), guns only bypass damage reduction of the /ballistic persuasion unless they are enhanced somehow. As far as ghosts are concerned, I'm not just talking about shooting them. I am talking about determining their wound points.

As for dragons, they have damage reduction that offers padding. And for large animals, damage reduction can be added, or perhaps something else....hmm....you struck on an idea...


NEW IDEA

WP might have a size-dependant factor to them. Here's the question: Should size grant a fixed number of additional WP or should it be a factor by which you multiply your WP? Or should it be included at all?

[Dthclaw]

I would definitely say that size should play into how hard something is to kill. After all, look at the average bug... human so much as looks at them wrong, they dead.

[Raven Bloodmoon]

Sounds good. How about this. Use a size-based multiplier after the initial wound points are calculated. So twice Constitution score x multiplier.

Size....................Mod
Fine.....................1/8
Diminutive............1/4
Tiny.....................1/2
Small.....................1
Medium..................1
Large.....................1
Huge...................1 1/2
Gargantuan............2
Colossal.................4


Look good?