[Overlord]

Just for interest, what would you all say are the main problems you have faced with different RPG's? I don't mean dungeon master or player issues, I mean game mechanics.
Thanks for any replies!!!

[randomquikfingrs]

Bad Mechanics? the entire fifth age of DragonLance, Enough said lol.

[Overlord]

Erm... For those of us who don't know about the fith age of dragonlance, would you care to elaborate? Thanks.

[david_peek]

I've already gone into detail as to the problems of combat mechanics in Shadowrun in another thread. (I wonder if that game will ever turn to a d20 system? That'd be sweet...)

The only other major pain I can think of was the old Marvel Superheroes percentile system. I never could get a good combat going with that. The whole idea it stunk. I was once running in a scenario where Ultron revived a bunch of robotic villians of days past and made an assault on the Avengers mansion. We had one group playing the villains, and the other playing the Avengers who were there (and Spider-Man, who happened to be visiting). Thanks to the quirky system and several lucky rolls on the part of the villains (of which I was a part) we managed to handily defeat all the heroes and killed two of them (Iron Man and Thor).

Not a very well thought out system...its no wonder it went the way of the dinosaur. TSR tried to adapt a similar system for one of the editions of Gamma World. I didn't know this when I bought it...that box soon ended up on the used shelf of my local gaming shop.

[Overlord]

Thanks a lot, Shadowborn. I have read (and replied to, if memory serves) your posts on shadowrun. Bad game mechanics is an interestig topic, and I would love to hear more (as I'm sure others would), so please, even if it is just a small bad mechanic, PLEASE post it!

[Dusk]

I'm the token d20 hater in the mod's group, so I have to chime in here

d20 sucks

Hey, someone had to say it

Actually the mechanics themselves I don't have too many problems with. I just think that classes & levels are too restrictive, and the whole concept of "game balance" that gets touted is just plain stupid and irrelevant. I also object to the way certain publishers have rushed to adapt their games to d20, when their own systems are better. And I think some things, Deadlands and Call of Cthulhu, for example, just don't work as d20 products.

However, I do like what some non-WOTC publishers are doing with it. I think the Spycraft game from AEG is well done; and Shadowwolf just ran a session of Mutants & Masterminds that we all really enjoyed. I think that product does a much better job with the d20 concept than, say, D&D3E.

I've enjoyed the d20 games I've been involved in, but that's generally despite the system, not because of it - a decent GM can make any system bearable. The only d20 product I will ever buy at this point is the upcoming B5 RPG. And that's only because I'm a B5 nut...

[david_peek]

Quote

Erm... For those of us who don't know about the fith age of dragonlance, would you care to elaborate?     Thanks.

Never actually played it myself, but from what I recall the system was diceless, and you played cards with actions upon them, or some such. Coincidentally enough, TSR re-released Marvel Superheroes for a while using the same system they used for Dragonlance Fifth Age...

[Darius]

Anyone ever play the "Amber" diceless system???.Now that was a game with crap game mechanics.

D

[Malfor]

Quote

Just for interest, what would you all say are the main problems you have faced with different RPG's? I don't mean dungeon master or player issues, I mean game mechanics.
Thanks for any replies!!!

I'm not a big fan of 3rd ed. The whole be whatever you want just doesn't go over well with me. Course my only experience thus far has been with NeverWinter Nights. I'm assuming the pen and paper plays better.

Shadowrun I liked everything but the combat.

My friends and I still play 2ed ADnD, and we're also trying out JAGS (just another gaming system) It's free on the net.

[BrotherMouran]

The worst offender I've ever seen of truly bad game mechanics was the original edition of Twilight:2000. For those not familiar with it, the game is pseudo-post nuclear holocost. The war is still being fought, but in more conventional means again.

I knew two GM's in college who would buy anything, gamewise, so we sampled lots of different systems, and this was one of them. We were playtesting it, to see if it was workable/fun/logical/whatever and decide if we wanted to give it some serious play time. Needless to say, this game quickly became a joke when we discovered that is was possible for a man wearing a light arms flak jacket to survive a direct hit from the main cannon of an M1A1-A Abrams Main Battle Tank. Once we figured this one out, and realized it wasn't all that uncommon of a result, this game was shelved. A pity, too, as they had some very good equipment lists and supplements.

[Darius]

The other Problem with Twilight 2000 was the fact you needed a super computer in the first edition to work out if you had actually hit or done any damage

D

[JayVee]

I've always found the old Cyberpunk 2020 system to be one of the most frustrating games out there... The feel of ultra-dark cyber future, William Gibson style, is cool and the grittier edge makes for more interesting light/dark shading to adventures and characters than what I see as the more elves and fairies setting of Shadowrun.
BUT
The combat has always seemed way too lethal to me. Of course it has to be dangerous, it is supposed to be gritty, but if the PCs weren't strolling the streets wearing two hundred pounds of protective gear then any gangbanger with a pistol and some luck meant they were toast. I once tried to run an "official" module series and gave up when one of the players lost an arm in combat and would have been out of action for months of game time, even given that the rest of the players were able to win the firefight and rescue him.

[Dusk]

Quote

I once tried to run an "official" module series and gave up when one of the players lost an arm in combat and would have been out of action for months of game time, even given that the rest of the players were able to win the firefight and rescue him.

Heh, my very first time running the game, my very first combat using the system, one of the players had a limb blown off. I seem to remember all of us being so amused that even the player wasn't upset. Besides, he had a Trauma Team (to CP2020 what Doc Wagon is to Shadowrun) contract, and I let him get healed up real fast...was back in action by the end of the first session.

I actually found the combat rules just right. As long as you don't let things get too high on the power scale too soon (Armor-piercing ammo and full power armor are *NOT* easy to find), the rules seem to fit just fine with the atmosphere I tried to give the campaign. CP2020 was always one of the games I actually liked to run more than I liked to play, and I'm not even a huge fan of that genre.

[Cuilean]

Rolemaster/MERP. Horrid overcomplicated system. The best part of the system were the critical hit tables.

MechWarrior, first edition. The random garbage thrown out to try to merge the solid strategic game of BattleTech to a personal level was literally trash on so many levels. (Talk about an easy system to exploit. )

The current MageKnight design phases of BattleTech. Blech. If I wanted to play MageKnight, I'd play MageKnight. I want my realistic tactical battle back.

::Putting on his flak jacket:: The original basic D&D game that stated that all elves were fighter/mages and all dwarves were fighters. Clerics, fighters, thieves and magic-users of any other shape or form had to be human.

The original Bard from 1st edition AD&D. A little too much historical style placed into that one, I think.

[Darius]

Quote

Rolemaster/MERP.  Horrid overcomplicated system.  The best part of the system were the critical hit tables.

my favorites were the electricity and the radiation critical tables
The fumble tables werent too bad either , had a mate who did a major fumble , ended up shooting hmself in the head and scored a critical

D