[sarakah]

I was Wondering If anyone else feels that the ranger is just a watered down version of a druid, and fairly useless past first level. Unless someone has any ideas on how to make them effective past that without multiclassing into something else. Please share your thoughts. I feel that the D20 system is fairly balenced except in the classes where they get magic at 4th level, I feel that magic should be fairly uniqe to wizards, scorcerers, and Clerics. the addition of first level spells at fourth level does not in my mind leave the ranger equal to say a monk, or a fighter, or even a wizard at an equal level. Let me know what you think.

[Rintaran]

I agree that the Ranger appears weak after the first level. However, it is far from a watered down Druid, which focuses on shape changing and affinity with nature. I believe that the Ranger class is one of the things that is being revamped in edition 3.1 of the rules.

One point about D&D that you appear to be missing though is that it's supposed to be a Role Playing Game. One doesn't walk around telling people, "I'm a ranger", or "I'm a barbarian" {which is a misnomer for a class name if I ever saw one}. They don't walk up to each other and go, "I get a +2 on all my attacks against goblins, what can you do?" Think of them as people, with histories and problems that you get to play. You pretend that you're someone else. Your character doesn't know that the ranger class is slightly weaker than the wizard class, and the word class has a completely different meaning to him. The numbers aren't the focus of the game, playing as a different person is. That's why its called Role Playing and not Roll Playing.

And that's my two cents on the subject. I hope I haven't offended anyone. Hack & slash and powergaming both have their place in the gaming community and I'm certain there are many people out there that prefer it to indepth RP. I'm just not one of them and I can accept your viewpoints and hope you can accept mine without flaring up in anger.

[sarakah]

No Anger here, I invited this discussion Because I Wnated to hear Honest opinions. And to be quite honest I Prefer Role Playing, I personally find that hackenslash gets boring for me Quite quickly. My concern for the Ranger Class is that It seems to have nothing that really sets it apart from the other Classes, and it can be quite frustrating to play a character that can not do anything as well as the other members in the party. I know there is an argument that you can role play weakness into strength, But every class should be balanced and I don't see how that is the case. Your point about how the character sees things is well taken, but what i was more refering to was the fact that for example the rogue is not the best front line fighter, but is the most skilled class in the game. that sort of thing. I see the same weakness in the Paladin.

[Rintaran]

Well in that case, I must point out that the ranger is superb at fighting particular monster types. That's where they shine. They have studied their enemy and know how to handle them best. They can fight with two weapons, track their foe. This is a power they get right off the bat. When they get powerful enough to have a +9 attack bonus, their two weapon fighting is improved and they'll slice you up right.

[Graz\'zt]

I like the ranger, but it can become useless depending on the adventure. If you don't spend much time in the wilderness, then it's not very good beyond the first few levels. But if you spend a lot of time in mines or in forests, the ranger is excellent. I also find they make good multi-classers with Druids.

In my campaigns, i often use the ranger class as a major enemy, as they could hunt down the PC's or chase them or something.

If you're in an adventure where the Ranger's full potential cannot be used, they are really just a untechnical fighter that uses two weapons. If you are in an adventure with a lot of camping out and hunting down, the Ranger outclasses the fighter easily.

[Shadow_Wolf]

my group and I have said that the new ranger is almost a waist of a class in the 3rd eddition rules. one of my freinds re-wrote the class to better ballance it. it is now the standered ranger for our group.

[Rintaran]

Indeed. I remember how when I played 2nd edition I loved the ranger class, this 3rd ed version is a mockery. It didn't take me long to switch over to other classes. As I mentioned earlier, I think that WoTC has revised the ranger class for edition 3.1 . They're rereleasing all the books with the new errata and some other modifications in them, so it might make a difference.

Shadow_Wolf, what's your group's version of the ranger like?

[Shadow_Wolf]

it used to be in the download section of this site. if not i'll talk to the people who wrote it and try to get it re-posted.

[sarakah]

RANGER
Level Base attack bonus Special
1st +1 Ambidexterity, Two weapon fighting, Trak
2nd +2 Uncanny Dodge (dex bonus to AC)
3rd +3 Evasion
4th +4 Vow of Vengeance (+4 bonus)
5th +5 True Sight
6th +6/+1 Uncanny Dodge (Can’t be flanked)
7th +7/+2 Trackless Step
8th +8/+3 Venom Immunity
9th +9/+4 Improved Two Weapon Fighting
10th +10/+5 Uncanny Dodge (+1 against traps)
11th +11/+6/+1 Improved Evasion
12th +12/+7/+2 Implacable Foe
13th +13/+8/+3
14th +14/+9/+4 Uncanny Dodge (+2 against traps)
15th +15/+10/+5
16th +16/+11/+6/+1 Bonus Shot
17th +17/+12/+7/+2
18th +18/+13/+8/+3 Uncanny Dodge (+3 against traps)
19th +19/+14/+9/+4 Bonus Feat
20th +20/+15/+10/+5 True Strike (once per day)

Saves Fort Ref Will
Save Save Save
1st +0 +2 +0
2nd +0 +3 +0
3rd +1 +3 +1
4th +1 +4 +1
5th +1 +4 +1
6th +2 +5 +2
7th +2 +5 +2
8th +2 +6 +2
9th +3 +6 +3
10th +3 +7 +3
11th +3 +7 +3
12th +4 +8 +4
13th +4 +8 +4
14th +4 +9 +4
15th +5 +10 +5
16th +5 +10 +5
17th +5 +11 +5
18th +6 +11 +6
19th +6 +12 +6
20th +6 +12 +6






Alignment

Rangers can be of any Lawful Alignment.

Ex-Rangers


Once a Ranger raises another class by a level he can never raise his ranger class.


Class Skills

The Rangers class skills and the key ability for each skill are:

Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Hide (Dex), Intuit Direction (Wis), Jump (Str), Knowledge Nature (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Search (Int),
Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), Use Rope (Dex), Wilderness Lore (Wis)


Skill Points at 1st Level: (4+ Int modifier) 4
Skill Points at Each Additional level: 4+Int Modifier

Class Features
Weapon and Armor Proficiency

The Ranger is Proficient with all simple weapons, Short sword, Longsword, Rapier, Scimitar, and Bastard Sword, as well as all ranged martial weapons.
When a Ranger is wearing light armor or no armor he can fight with two weapons as if he had the Feats Two weapon fighting, and Ambidexterity.



Track
A Ranger gains Track as a bonus feat

Uncanny Dodge

Starting at Second Level, the Ranger gains the extraordinary ability to react to danger before his senses would normally allow him to do so. At second level and above, he retains his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) regardless of being caught flat footed, or struck by an invisible attacker. (He still loses his Dex bonus if immobilized)
At 6th level, the Ranger can no longer be flanked; he can react to opponents on opposite sides of him as easily as he can react to a single attacker.

Evasion

At third level, a Ranger Gains evasion. If exposed to any effect that normally allows a Character to attempt a reflex saving throw for half damage (Such as Fireball), he takes no damage with a successful saving throw. Evasion can only be used if the Ranger is wearing light armor or no armor. It is an extraordinary ability.

Vow of Vengeance

At Fourth level a Ranger gains the Ability to take a Vow of Vengeance against a person or and, their organization. This vow gives them a +4 on attack, damage, track, and saving throws against that person or organization. Once a Vow has been made it cannot be rescinded until the person or organization has been destroyed. They also get a-4 for all charisma checks against that person or organization.

True Sight

As the spell true seeing, usable four times a day

Trackless Step

Starting at 7th level, a Ranger leaves no trail in natural surroundings, and cannot be tracked.

Venom Immunity

At 8th level, a Ranger gains Immunity to all Organic Poisons, Including monster poisons, but not mineral poisons, or poison gas.

Improved Two Weapon Fighting

A Ranger gains Improved two weapon fighting as a bonus feat.

Improved Evasion

This ability works just like evasion, except that while the ranger still takes no damage on a successful reflex save, he now takes only half-damage on a failed save.

Implacable Foe

The ranger gains a +4 on saving throws against fear and fear like effects.

Bonus Feat

A Ranger can pick a bonus feat from this list:
Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, Far Shot, Precise Shot

True Strike

As the Spell



*Some material Contained herein was taken from the Players Handbook
And used under the open gaming license. Feel free to use this as you will
but if you post this give me some Credit.

[sarakah]

Sorry if that post was a little long but Icouldn't figure out how else to get it on the site. Anyway let me know what you think of it.

[Rintaran]

Why can your Ranger only be lawful? And why did you switch the Fort and Ref saving throws around? When I picture a ranger in my mind, the first thing that comes to it is a hearty bushman, living day to day with little long-term planning and orderliness. Though there are many other ranger types out there, I would hate to have to exclude the basic.

Otherwise I guess its all right. I would prefer to keep the favoured enemy in there near the beginning someplace, and probably weaken then Vow of Vengeance. The class as you have it gives me more of a feeling of a bounty hunter than a woodsman.

[sarakah]

Some of the Choises were made to be campaign specific, exmp...Lawful because in my campaign rangers are a society that protects the borders and are fairly militaristic. I never liked the idea of more than one favored enemy, and i like to choose my enemy based on what has happend to my character that is why i put it at 4th lvl it is a little bit stronger than favored enemy at first but weaker in the long run. As for the switch in saves I have always viewed the ranger less as the hearty woodsman, and more of the extremely fast and dexterious tracker and scout, speed of reflex rather than brute stamina. It could be modified to fit someones campaign.

[Graz\'zt]

If I were to modify the Ranger, I would make him more of a hunter than a militant protector of the forest. I would probably give him all saves (Fort/Ref/Will +2 @ first level). I'd also probably add a lot of those abilities like Evasion, but not true sight etc. as those spells are a bit too powerful for them. I'd also give them better stamina and so on, like not eating etc.

[sarakah]

Oops i think i goofed true sight was supposed to be at 20th lvl and true strike at 5th lvl. other than that i have been playtesting this class and it seems to work very well as a hunter, tracker oriented class. though i think Rintaran may have been correct this is more of a bounty hunter type class, than what most people think of as a Ranger. I feel that the barbarian class covers the rugged outdoors man well enough as it is and the ranger should be different but I welcome all thoughts on the matter. Keep the comments coming. I would like to know what people think of the class.

[Rintaran]

Quote

in my campaign rangers are a society that protects the borders and are fairly militaristic.

So every single ranger on the entire planet in your game is a member of this one society and no one else can be a member? There are no accountants? No spiritual guidance to help out? No information web connected throughout the world under their control? No mages working to protect their headquarters or to create enchanted items for them? No political advisors? No diplomats? Sounds like a pretty elitist organization on the verge of its own collapse. Perhaps you should make it a prestige class instead of limiting all the rangers to this organization. Being a ranger is a way of life, not a membership card.