[Oneiros]

Sorry, dude. All those, except kangaroo, are covered in the core rules.

Hyena = Hyena
Anaconda = Snake, constrictor
Cobra = Snake, viper

[Raven Bloodmoon]

Sorry dude, but didn't you notice that I have included stats for an Adder in the animals? Not all snakes are as venemous as the next. Some deserve special attention. And contrary to WotC's belief, the size of the snake does not change the deadliness of its poison; the pygmy rattler is more toxic than a lot of MUCH larger snakes.

I will stat out the Cobra.
I will also stat out the Anaconda based on the fact that it is a little larger than Huge and having a stat block for that big of a snake would be nice.

[Keth Durgan]

Perhaps I just haven't spent enough time going through stuff. I'll see if I can come up with some *really* off the wall creatures that, hopefully, can't be statted using something already in existence.

[Dthclaw]

Hyena and hippo are the two in Sandstorm that come to mind. I think jackals are in there, too.

Frostburn has some arctic critters, mostly pre-historic (ie wooly mammoth, big frakking deer thingy).

Now... about my duck-billed platypus...

[Oneiros]

Raven Bloodmoon, on Jun 13 2006, 11:07 AM, said:

Sorry dude, but didn't you notice that I have included stats for an Adder in the animals? Not all snakes are as venemous as the next. Some deserve special attention. And contrary to WotC's belief, the size of the snake does not change the deadliness of its poison; the pygmy rattler is more toxic than a lot of MUCH larger snakes.

Ah Ha! Now your true agenda raises it's venomous head, Raven, for I spy your variant Poison rules lurking in the Adder's entry!

No, seriously, I understand where you're coming from. But I don't think it's WotC's belief that size=toxicity for all snakes, but just a game mechanic to keep things simple, not turn it into a book on herpatology. That's why we just have one "kind" of venomous snake in the core rules - everything else is glossed over as flavor.

However, there's no reason that more specific species of snakes couldn't be detailed. That's the stuff Dragon magazine articles are made of. In fact, I think there was one such article back for 2E, but the poison system was much different back then. I'll have to take a look at that (got the Dragon CD rom collection) and see about converting.

I think in addition to your variant rules in the stats, something allowing for differences in the poison of specific snakes that doesn't alter the core rules should be included as well, especially if we want to include these critters in the Monstrous Compilation with the widest utility.

My suggestion is to simply give the snakes a racial bonus to the Poison DC. So the pygmy rattlesnake may have a +4 racail bonus, for a SWAG instance. We'll need to work out some sort of relative scale, for weakest to strongest vemon, but I think you might have done some leg work on that, already. I do know, tho, that sea snakes have the strongest on the planet. Racial Bonus +8 as a max value?

Possibly change the damage type, too, for various species - Con for hemotoxins and Dex for neurotoxins. I'm not sure if there's a real world natural toxin type to model Str damage after.

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I will stat out the Cobra.

Remember to include a Spitting subspecies (I don't think all cobras can spit, can they?) There's a feat in either Savage Species or Serpent Kingdoms you could model the ability after.

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I will also stat out the Anaconda based on the fact that it is a little larger than Huge and having a stat block for that big of a snake would be nice.

But overall length isn't how you would apply the size category to creatures. Serpent-like monsters aren't addressed specifically in the rules, but note that for quadrapeds, it's nose to base of tail for length - and a snake is probably 1/3 tail.

And think of the way it has to fight - coiling up to be able to support it's head so it can strike. If a real world anaconda could be Gargantuan as you suggest, it would occupy a 20x20 foot space in combat and be have a 15' reach. It would also have a minimum of seventeen HD. I just don't see it. That's in the fantasy snake-god range - something Conan might fight.

Another point to consider when assigning size is the snake's weight. The low end for Gargantuan creatures is 16 TONS. The top weight for an ananconda is only one fortieth of that - a little over 400 pounds. Average is closer to 300.

A typical anaconda is only about 20 feet in length, with the record being 37 and a half. Again, figuring how much space and reach it would actually use in combat, and it's weight, I think an average specimen is nicely represented by the current Medium-size "Constrictor Snake" entry in the Monster Manual. If you want the record size one, just use the advancement line at the bottom of the entry to bump it up to Large.

[Raven Bloodmoon]

I'll buy your argument on the constrictor snake, but where on earth did you come up with "It would also have a minimum of seventeen HD."? Did I gloss over a part of a book that told me what DMs are allowed to do with monsters?

[Oneiros]

Ah. I typed that in response to this:

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I will also stat out the Anaconda based on the fact that it is a little larger than Huge and having a stat block for that big of a snake would be nice.

- thinking you were referring to the existing "Constrictor snake, Giant", which is Huge currently, and become Gargantuan at 17 HD according to the advancement line. I guess you were just referring to the lengths described in the size categories themselves, tho, not the monster entry.

I thought I did see somewhere, however, guidelines for minimum HD for different sizes. Maybe the old "Designing Monsters" article in Dragon in the early 3.0 days?

I mean, a Gargantuan creature is definitely going to have more than just a couple of HD, unless it's a giant flumph or something ...

[Ssri-Tel-Quessir Hitokiri]

Koala
Anteater
Mountain Beaver

Also, would you be willing to do different kinds of similar animals? For example, the Red-Tailed Hawk and the Ferruginous Hawk.

[Raven Bloodmoon]

Consider those on the agenda, as well, ssri.

As far as differnt types of similar creatures, there would have to be something markedly different between them for 1st ed. Second ed. of this collection may include similar species as well as subspecies.

[pokepaul]

Out of curiousity does anyone have stats for ducks and the duck of doom?
Also are you planning to make this Bestiary of Things WotC Neglected to Include in Any of Their Literature available for download?