[MasterSreg]

Greetings and salutations. I am MasterSreg, or Nicoli, if you prefer. I've had little more than four years of experience in the game, most of which was 2nd Edition. My new experiences in 3rd Edition have renewed my interest in the game, and I've now taken up DMing again. It is going to be a rough start, but I'm sure with this site's resources at my disposal, I will prevail.

I'm fleshing out a new world. One of the main themes is that gods walk Thoric (my world), amidst the nature of society. They were created by the elder god, Dregan (also God of the Farplane), in permanent material form to co-exist and better serve their worshipers. The gods, while powerful, are not invulnerable, nor are they free of mortal shackles like the need for sustinence and rest. I can elaborate on the mechanics later.

Anyways, I'd like to maintain this topic. I'll continue to post new information as it develops. Wish me luck.

- MasterSreg

[Shadow_Wolf]

good luck and welcome to the site

[MasterSreg]

I've decided to use the "inner-outer" method of campaign design. That is to say, I shall start small and expand from what I construct. I'm going to start with a few adventures, and as more of the land becomes known, I will eventually develop my campaign world.
I'm having trouble with the concepts of dieties' having permanent manifestations. Its complex, because I think the dieties must have "rules" applied to them, like the inability to interfer in events, but the design of these "rules" may be beyond me. Perhaps, the gods shouldn't roam Thoric afterall, though this disappoints me.

[ladyofdragons]

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I've decided to use the "inner-outer" method of campaign design. That is to say, I shall start small and expand from what I construct. I'm going to start with a few adventures, and as more of the land becomes known, I will eventually develop my campaign world.

definitely a much faster way to work than top-down (outer to inner) that I've been trying to use.

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I'm having trouble with the concepts of dieties' having permanent manifestations. Its complex, because I think the dieties must have "rules" applied to them, like the inability to interfer in events, but the design of these "rules" may be beyond me. Perhaps, the gods shouldn't roam Thoric afterall, though this disappoints me.

Well, structure is always a nice thing from a GM standpoint, but I don't really know if it applies to gods except in a loose framework sort of manner. I mean, they are gods. It sounds like a sort of greco/roman ideal you're working with. Their gods were physical manifestations (though they could change their form) and did require sustenance and slept and made whoopie and all that fun stuff. You might consider looking at some greek/roman legends for ideas.

[MasterSreg]

There are no problems with the gods at the moment, but if I do not develop "rules" to limit what they can and cannot do, they may run amok. I need a certain level of control to keep the gods from interfering with the adventures, while still keeping a place for them in the campaign.
I've had an idea: The same way that the gods of other worlds have their own planes, I'm thinking the gods can have an alternate plane, where they spend most of their time. They will still have greater-mortal bodies, instead of omnipresence. The elder god, Dregan, is more of the omnpresent type.
For now, I have a single player to manage. I could get one other, right off-hand, however I'd like a group of at least three players. A triad is one of the strongest team formations known, so I think an "Untouchable Trio" of sorts is what I'm looking for, minus the Jolly B. characteristics.

[MasterSreg]

Alright, I'm shifting my attention away from the gods for a while. I'm focusing on the adventures themselves for now.
My first adventure I'd like to be simple; a two floor dungeon, with decent detail and thick plot. I'm thinking of a conspiracy, an undead conspiracy. Perhaps there will be "undead lords", whom often stuggle for power amongst themselves. I'm thinking the first adventure will take place because an "undead lord" wishes to eradicate some of a rival lord's minions or foil its plan. The PCs will be unwitting pawns in their conflicts for power!
Comments?

[MasterSreg]

I've been developing the plot, but I'm going to have to work overtime to produce this first adventure.

The Undead Lords are pawns of a diabolic entity who is called The Whispered One. The Whispered One, Maelijean, whispers into minds of those who are suseptable to his power, to grant them demonic investments in return for service in the material plane. Maelijean's ultimate goal is to enter the material plane and rule it through puppet organizations.

The first adventure: The PCs are paiged by Lord Graver of the Raven clan, who happens to be an undead lord. They are to investigate "odd" activity in the Raven family crypts. The truth of the matter, which will be completely unknown to the PCs, is that a rival undead lord's minions are thieving corpses from the crypt and using them for thaumaturgical purposes. The idea is that the PCs are going to interfer in these power-struggles between the undead lords and become engaged in a dark, confusing plot, making for a long campaign.

Questions:
Are there any entities which would suffice for the undead lords or shall I create my own?
Are there any entities which would suffice for The Whispered One, Maelijean, such as tanari or batezu(sp), or shall I create my own?

[Rintaran]

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Are there any entities which would suffice for the undead lords or shall I create my own?

Well, there are numerous powerful undead creatures out there. Vampires and Liches being the most notable and they are very customizable because you have to use a template to create them anyways. WOTC has put up a new template on their site for an even more powerful type of Vampire which would more than suffice in this case.

One thing I would like to mention though, layer the 'undead lords'. By this I mean create a sort of a tree type thing. Lets face it, the PCs probably aren't going to see the rival 'undead lord' on too many of their adventures, maybe never. No one being can overlook ALL aspects of its operation. The head honcho assigns trusted captains to certain areas. These captains assign certain lieutenants to certain tasks, and no doubt those lieutenants will assign sergeants to take care of other tasks.

Of course, creating a new undead race would be a very interesting prospect, and one you may want to look into for the top two or three levels of undead lords, or possibly the lowest dredges.

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Are there any entities which would suffice for The Whispered One, Maelijean, such as tanari or batezu(sp), or shall I create my own?

Ok, first off. Tanar'ri are right out because you used this statement:

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The Undead Lords are pawns of a diabolic entity who is called The Whispered One.

Diabolic refers to devils, the lawful evil creature of Hell {like baatezu}. Demonic refers to demons, the chaotic evil creatures of the Abyss {like tanar'ri}. If you use something like the ordered scheme I suggested, than you would definately want a devil over a demon. If they work as seperate cells to accomplish different goals and they do it in an almost completely unplanned manner, then you a demon would probably work better.

I would highly suggest that you create your own devil. There are many excellent devils that you can choose from, but since this will very likely be the big baddy that the PCs may eventually have to deal with somehow, it is probably better to create your own.

I would highly suggest buying either 'Evil' by AEG or "The Book of Vile Darkness" by WOTC when you start thinking deeply about evil organizations and the plans of demons and devils.

Umm... I seem to have muddled on a bit. If you have any questions on what I've tried to say, just ask. Anyhow, I'm going out for a beer. Cheers!

[MasterSreg]

Interesting points, Rintaran. I shall keep them in mind. I'm thinking of designing three new undead: rots, undead lord, and lucavi.
Rots: Undead directly created from a living being. They retain all the properties of their living form. They are often created by undead lords for their unwavering loyalty, as the undead lord can choose to cut the flow of negative energy to them. Rots are often enhanced physically and mentally, depending on the amounts of negative energy their masters supply them. Rots can advance in level and class, but are stagnant in their ways, and suffer experience penalties.
Undead Lords (working title): Undead lords are created when imbued with negative energy while alive, resulting it the painful transformation into an undead lord. They are maintained through the negative energy supplied by The Whispered One. Undead lords can command, rebuke, and turn undead, as well as animate the dead. They are but agents of The Whispered One.
Lucavi (working title): Has anyuone played Final Fantasy Tactics? Well, I'm itending that undead lords can transform into Lucavi. Besides that, I haven't much detail on this.

As for Maelijean, The Whispered One, I'll worry about its mechanics later. I mean, he is supposed to be the pinnacle of the campaign, so I have plenty of time. However, I need more players. As soon as I can get a few more, I think I'll be more motivated towards the game.

[Shadow_Wolf]

there might be something of interest in the WhiteWolf Sword and Socery, "Scared Lands" Monster Manual. they some pretty powerfull sentient undead

[MasterSreg]

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there might be something of interest in the WhiteWolf Sword and Socery, "Scared Lands" Monster Manual. they some pretty powerfull sentient undead

Indeed. I've read it and its exquisite.

[Overlord]

One simple idea for the "Whispered One" (love the name, by the way); Why not take a powerful creature from the monster manual, and just alter it slightly? It could be much easier... but I am aware that it can be rewarding to create your own things from scratch. 2 days ago I began a new campaign, which is an in-depth role play about oppression etc, set in a huge dome that the inhabitants cannot get out of. The "Overlord" who lives in the outside world, takes out the high level people and extracts their experience to manufacture golems, who act as the police, army, etc. It is also a low magic campaign, and when magic is cast it is located, and the spell caster is chased after and possibly killed. Spell "silencers" have been made for this purpose. I got rid of some classes and races, and abolished money for a bartering system. I'm not quite finished designing it yet, so there is still a fair bit to do! -sigh- But its worth it. In fact, the goddess of light and justice is helping the adventurers in the guise of Drashivare, a clr10/sor10. There is also a mysterious character reminicant of Dungeon master from the cartoon series. Whoops, I seem to have come off the point! what I mean to say is that if you think it would take too much time to do it from scratch, then I would suggest altering a monster.