[FlyingDagger]

Sorry to bother you all. Still playing 2nd edition, I just ran into a big brick wall with my DM. He insists that thieves can only backstab with knives and daggers, however I believe (and I've played thieves for *years*) that you can backstab with small piercing weapons, like for instance the weapon in question: The short sword.

Since I'm %99.9999etc sure you can do this, I'm searching everywhere for the weapon restriction rules for thief backstabbing. I can't for the life of me find any! I was so sure they existed. If anyone would please be so kind as to assist me, I humbly ask to be pointed to the section where this rule is stated. I feel like I've checked every book I can think of three times over.

Help would be *greatly* appreciated. Thank you!

[ladyofdragons]

According to Skip Williams in a Sage Advice, (I believe from 1998, this is sort of third-hand but notated in the Living City ruleset I found online), a thief can backstab with any weapon allowed to the thief class. Thus, a shortsword is quite "legal" for backstabbing according to the "official" rules.

The idea of backstabbing is that a thief can sneak up behind someone and do damage, and are able to hit the victim's vitals because they cannot move to protect themselves from the blow they do not know is coming. A short sword works just fine for this interpretation.

Of course, your DM has the ability to decide for him or her self that they don't agree, and can rule this as not allowable in their game.

[Cuilean]

I agree with LoD's recollection. If I can remember, I'll check my Dragons, and see if I can't give you a specific issue & page number.

Backstabbing isn't necessarily *stabbing*... a thief with a sap (the nonlethal lead-filled pouch kind) is sometimes a much, much scarier opponent.

[Dthclaw]

Blargh. This is why I like 3.5 so much more...

[falloutboy690]

im as sure as ive ever been, yes you can. any thing usable by the theif class, and a short sword is definatly under the list. but once again, your dm gets the final say

[Curby]

When I'm DMin', I tend to rule that thieves can backstab with daggers, knives, short swords, saps, blackjack, and other small one handed weapons. But as always, it all depends on your DM, my buddy rules that only knives, dagger, blackjacks, and saps are all that he'll allow for backstab. My other buddy will let a thief backstab with anyweapon he is proficent in.

[Yurith]

Curby, on Dec 12 2005, 10:04 PM, said:

When I'm DMin', I tend to rule that thieves can backstab with daggers, knives, short swords, saps, blackjack, and other small one handed weapons.  But as always, it all depends on your DM, my buddy rules that only knives, dagger, blackjacks, and saps are all that he'll allow for backstab.  My other buddy will let a thief backstab with anyweapon he is proficent in.

The guy has a point. Its about the DM. Rule #1.

[Graymouser]

Hell, I'd also toss in a Garrotte to the thief's arsenal...while not technically a backstabber per se, it should be treated similarly (if someone came up to a potential mark and wrapped a wire around their neck, that'd pretty much be it for the victim less they were ogre sized.

[chatdemon]

I tend to allow backstab with any non-missile weapon, the bonuses are more related to surprise and location of the hit than to the nature of any specific weapon.

I even allow backstab with a weapon not usually allowed to thieves, if they accept the non-proficiency penalty on the to hit roll.

[chatdemon]

I tend to allow backstab with any non-missile weapon, the bonuses are more related to surprise and location of the hit than to the nature of any specific weapon.

I even allow backstab with a weapon not usually allowed to thieves, if they accept the non-proficiency penalty on the to hit roll.

[OldSchoolDnd]

chatdemon, on 23 June 2007 - 10:33 PM, said:

I tend to allow backstab with any non-missile weapon, the bonuses are more related to surprise and location of the hit than to the nature of any specific weapon.

I even allow backstab with a weapon not usually allowed to thieves, if they accept the non-proficiency penalty on the to hit roll.

If a player can with a straight face convince a DM that he is able to creep up behind his victim stealthfully and Backstab.....with a Halbert or another Pole arm, then More power to them....

but for gaming purposes, except for special circumstances I would concur making the weapons small and onehanded No bigger than a short sword, or a hand ax.

[ladyofdragons]

chatdemon, on 23 June 2007 - 10:33 PM, said:

I tend to allow backstab with any non-missile weapon, the bonuses are more related to surprise and location of the hit than to the nature of any specific weapon.

I can only think of the movie The Gamers, backstabbing with a ballista.